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Pocket Square
The pocket square block is a variation on the traditional and more popular Pinwheel pattern. They use all of the same pieces, but this organization isolates a light center portion and a darker border.
Scott Smith
DAAP Student
Scott Smith is one of the few conservative-leaning students the UC’s art school, DAAP. His experience at school is affected by the differences that are evident between him and his class mates. In our interview we talked about what it is like to be on the unpopular side of a debate, civility in conversation, and his work and experience with poetry.
We're going to get started right now. If you could just state for the record your name and the reason that you believe I asked you to be part of this project.
My name is Scott Smith and I believe I was asked to be a part of this project because I'm one of the conservative outliers in a very liberal community at the University of Cincinnati.
Yeah, that's accurate. Would you go ahead and describe for us some of your personal beliefs or policies that you find to be different than your peers?
Generally speaking, as far as beliefs and policies go, when I say I'm conservative leaning I have mostly a large distrust of the government. I don't believe that there are many things that the government does well that couldn't be handled in other ways. There are very few exceptions to that and I think that the government often just gets in the way of the evolution of mankind. I think that there's a lot of red tape and bureaucracy that gums up the works of progress and actually, in some cases, makes it more difficult for people to render aid to those who need it. I don't really like using labels.
I WOULD SAY CONSERVATIVE IS A FAIR ESTIMATION, BUT I JUST FEEL LIKE ASSIGNING A SPECIFIC WORD OR POLICY TO IT IS KIND OF A GENERALIZATION. I DON'T LIKE TO CALL PEOPLE REPUBLICANS OR DEMOCRATS. IF I HAD TO USE ONE, I'D SAY I'M PROBABLY CLOSEST TO A LIBERTARIAN. BUT THERE ARE EVEN SOME LIBERTARIAN THINGS THAT I DISAGREE WITH.
Do you think that you're particularly outspoken about your beliefs?
I don't believe I'm particularly outspoken. I mean if the conversation happens, I'm willing to let it happen. But generally speaking, I can usually tell if someone is able to have the conversation in a civil way. And that's not very often. So it doesn't seem like you can have the conversation very often. That's true of all politics or faiths or religions. People just get really upset and emotional with difficult topics. I'll definitely advocate for my policies, but only if I believe that we can do so in a kind way.
Talk to me about what civility means to you.
CIVILITY IN A CONVERSATION IS PARTICULARLY LETTING THE OTHER PERSON SPEAK. I BELIEVE THAT YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO PARROT BACK WHAT THAT PERSON SAID TO YOU IN A WAY THAT THEY ARE OKAY WITH SO THAT THEY CAN FEEL HEARD. THAT WAY YOU CAN AVOID BIAS IN YOUR LISTENING.
I also believe that civility is about understanding that you don't have to agree with somebody to respect them. I think that's where a lot of the miscommunication happens. I have an opinion that differs from somebody, they believe that that means that I'm being disrespectful. It's like no, I have a difference of opinion and I would like to discuss why
Is having conversations about differing opinions something that you're interested in or that you pursue?
Oh yeah. I definitely believe that part of the whole life and living and growth and learning experience is being exposed to differences of opinions and having difficult emotional conversations. I don't believe that people grow any other way. Growth comes through conflict of some sort. You see that a lot with the ambush interviewers where somebody representing a particular political stance will just go out on a college campus and ambush people with questions. That's not helpful because that's just putting people on edge and not actually leading to discussion so much as defense.
What's one way that you pursue growth in your everyday life?
Well, I love to have the difficult conversations with people. I try to surround myself with the people who can have them civilly, which is quite interesting because maybe only two or three people that I know are aligned with my political beliefs and my faith beliefs. Whereas most of the other people that I have the conversations with are not aligned. I try to keep those relationships alive because I think it's really important to always have those conflicting viewpoints.
So you spend a lot of time with people who don't share your beliefs.
Yeah. But I almost always try to keep it a one-on-one thing.
That makes sense. It can be a little bit too crowded in a conversation otherwise. How would you describe the environment that you experience at DAAP? Is it pretty different from the beliefs and values that you hold personally?
Oh yeah. It's quite different. And, you know, I get it. The left side of the aisle is quite a bit more appealing to young people. I'll admit there's some parts of it that appeal to me too. From my perspective, it has been so virulently left and so combatively left that you can't even have a conversation about it.
YOU CAN'T EVEN TELL PEOPLE THAT YOU'RE CONSERVATIVE BECAUSE YOU'LL AUTOMATICALLY BE ACCUSED OF SO MANY THINGS. AT UC, I'VE BEEN ACCUSED OF BEING A RACIST, OF BEING A NAZI, OF BEING A HOMOPHOBE, OF BEING ALL THESE TERRIBLE, HATEFUL THINGS. ALL I DID WAS SAY THAT I DON'T THINK THAT THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD BE INVOLVED IN THIS THING.
We didn't even talk about race or homosexuality or any of those hot topic items. They just hear that I'm conservative leaning and they automatically assume, 'well we can't talk to him'.
When do these things come up for you in school?
There was actually one situation where I was at this club. I mean it was kind of like a club. They were trying to make it a club. They just didn't quite have enough people for it yet. But it was a public speaking oriented sort of organization. I gave a presentation about a political belief of mine and they actually kind of got a mob mentality of getting me out and shooing me away. That's probably the worst example of it that I've faced. But other times it's just been conversations with people where it seems to be going pretty civil and then I say something they don't like and all of a sudden I'm a racist. Half the time that wasn't even the topic. I remember there was one time that the topic was feminism and I said something the other person didn't like and they accused me of being a racist. Race had never even come up in it. I think she meant to say sexist, but even still, I don't believe that what I said was sexist. You can't really have nice conversations about tough topics.
Would you say that liberal college space can be a little bit exclusive?
Yeah. Yeah it can.
Do you think that's affected the way that you've experienced your education?
Oh, I think that's been a huge part of it. I don't want to name names but there is a particular professor, I'm sure you know what I'm talking about, who is so far left that they have spent two out of three hours of their classes each week just talking about politics and raging about the current presidency.
Raging is a good word for it.
It's maybe raving cause it just seems like he goes on and it doesn't seem like there's actually a whole lot of anger so much as just frustration. But yeah, it does get in the way a lot. College has this huge social aspect to it. Half the time I feel like people don't even want to talk to me about stuff that isn't even related to politics or religion. Just because I have that association, people tend to avoid getting to know me.
Do you think that these are ever constructive ways to use class or do you ever get frustrated that your education time is being spent on this?
I don't want to say that it's not constructive cause sometimes I do think it is constructive. My problem is I don't find that it's constructive when I am one out of maybe three people in the entire industrial design class that I'm in that I know is conservative. Everybody else is liberal and all the professors are liberal. If it was a little more even maybe then we could have some real conversations. But because it's so unbalanced, it just feels like I'd be playing the defensive.
Do you find yourself stepping up into these conversations or do you get called out sometimes or do you mostly stay quiet when you can?
I think that depends on the situation. I don't like to step up in a very large environment with a lot of people. In class, probably not. But outside of class, when there's like four or five people in the studio and then we can actually have a conversation- I don't mind that. Basically I just try to avoid the mob mentality and I try to avoid the us-versus-them appearance. I don't like it to seem like I'm just doing this to be contradictory.
I DON'T LIKE TO APPEAR AS THOUGH I'M JUST TRYING TO RESPOND TO PEOPLE'S REBUTTALS AS OPPOSED TO HAVE A CONVERSATION AND LISTEN TO PEOPLE'S CONCERNS. I WANT THE DISCOURSE TO BE A LITTLE MORE GENUINE. AND I THINK TO DO THAT YOU NEED TO HAVE A SMALLER SETTING.
Do you ever find that your opinions or the opinions of the people that you're speaking with are actually affected by the discourse?
Oh yeah. A couple of times. There was a one particular instance where I was walking with a friend. This friend being about as far left as you can go. He's actually a communist. I think that's literally the left of the spectrum.
Self identified?
Yes, self identified. He's quite proud of it. So we were walking around campus and we were about to go get some food. We saw probably one of the weirdest things I've seen on campus. It was a protest by this group. They were homosexual furries with guns.
Fascinating.
Yeah. We both thought that was fascinating cause it was just so specific. It was a pro gun rally with a bunch of raccoons and foxes and they were just marching through campus with a rifle strapped to their back. That led to a pretty interesting conversation about gun control. That was the thing that we got centered on because I don't think either of us were really qualified to talk about the other facets of that event. So we talked about gun control for a while. He kind of ended up admitting that his policies on gun control were too harsh. I also admitted that my thoughts on gun control were not so great either. I'm very much pro second amendment. Before that conversation I believed that the best solution was to arm everybody and make sure that everybody's packing. I had case study for that. I think it's Switzerland over in Europe that issues a semiautomatic rifle to every adult, and they have one of the lowest gun violence crime rates in the world. Then he brought up the points of, 'so you're telling me you've never seen a person and thought to yourself. 'I really wouldn't like them to have a gun'?'
Having had a really good example right in front of you.
Well, I mean I won't really speak to the furry community. But when he said that it made me think, 'Oh my gosh, when I go to the shooting range, there are a couple people on the shooting range that I wish were not on the shooting range'. For me being pro-gun is also being very pro gun safety. And there are some people that you see that are 'pro-gun' that will walk onto the shooting range and not keep their barrel pointed down range. Or they'll put their finger on the trigger when the gun is loaded, but they're not pointed down range. Yeah, okay. I see your point. There's definitely some people that I can agree I don't want them to have guns either. So we both kind of made concessions in that conversation.
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. It seems that the way that you treat the discourses is incredibly respectful and above all levelheaded because it's very difficult to have any type of conversation when that's not the case. Are there locations or groups on campus where you do feel completely comfortable?
There is one where I feel more comfortable than most. That would be the Cincinnati Poetry Collective. The CPC. They are a group that I was associated with before they were officially recognized by campus. The idea behind the Cincinnati Poetry Collective is it's basically just a writing-oriented group where there are weekly meetings and you can come and present your work. You can ask your coworkers for critiques. That whole group is just such a hodgepodge of so many different life experiences and so many different perspectives that I do feel more comfortable sharing some of my views amongst those people. Of course, there's also these very strong rules about not being combative and not being disrespectful because it's a poetry club.
DO YOU LIKE TO WRITE AND PRESENT YOUR WORK AT THESE EVENTS?
OH, I LOVE IT. I LOVE IT. IT'S ONE OF THE FEW TIMES THAT I FEEL LIKE I'M ACTUALLY BEING HEARD. A LOT OF TIMES I JUST FEEL LIKE THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE AREN'T REALLY LISTENING TO ME TO HEAR WHAT I HAVE TO SAY OR TO HEAR MY EXPERIENCES. THEY'RE JUST LISTENING TO ME SO THAT THEY CAN LIGHT UP THAT CONSERVATIVE GUY ON CAMPUS. THEY WANT TO BE ABLE TO RESPOND TO ME AS OPPOSED TO HEAR ME. I HAVE FOUND THAT THROUGH POETRY I AM ABLE TO REALLY GET MY POINT ACROSS IN A WAY THAT'S NOT COMBATIVE, BUT THAT'S COMPASSIONATE.
Who are your influences in poetry?
Probably my biggest influence is a guy by the name of Shane Koyczan. He's Canadian, I believe. Shane Koyczan is a spoken word poet. When I first discovered him, I was going through a lot of... a lot of... just a lot of stuff. Yeah. I mean I can tell you about that for hours, so I'll just say a lot of stuff. It’s just the way that he speaks. First of all, he is an overweight white dude with a beret and a neck beard. He does not seem like the kind of person that you would want to listen to, but he gets up on that stage and his presence and his compositions just grab your attention. That dude can break your heart in 20 seconds or less. I wanted to be able to do that. You know, I've often felt like that guy who is just kind of an average Joe looking person who just slips through the cracks. I wanted to be able to do the thing that Shane Koyczan does and get on stage and make those presentations and really just grab people by their emotions and do something with it.
Would you consider yourself to be a pretty emotional guy?
I would. I'm also a pragmatist, which is kind of weird. They don't seem to go hand in hand. There are some times that I'll get really emotional about something. But I have gotten pretty good at being able to step away for a moment to put my emotions down, go back into a situation with my pragmatism, and figure it out. Then usually by the time I have it figured out the emotions have pretty much died. I have aspects of both and I feel like I can move between them.
Do you ever present or recite your work elsewhere?
I have. Secretly.
Secretly. What's that mean?
Well, there was this one presentation event that I went to that was out of state and it was a masked event. The idea was that all the presenters had to cover up everything. It was like a social experiment. You couldn't show any of your skin. You had to pad yourself in such a way that nobody could tell whether you're a male or a female. Almost like the Masked Singer if you've seen that show. The whole idea was they were trying to separate the speaker from all associated stereotypes. I thought that was pretty interesting. I've also done a couple of open mic events nearby. But nothing huge. It's mostly been bars and coffee shops.
What was that event like?
The specific one with the all the masked stuff? It was a little weird. It was a little weird- like a beautiful kind of weird.
IT WAS REALLY INTERESTING. A LOT OF TIMES IN POETRY YOU'LL HEAR ABOUT GENDER DISCRIMINATION, RACIAL DISCRIMINATION. YOU'LL HEAR ABOUT PEOPLE DEALING WITH SELF IMAGE ISSUES. WHENEVER THE POETS AND THE SPEAKERS WERE TOLD 'YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO USE ANY OF THAT AMMUNITION AND WE'RE ALSO GOING TO MAKE SURE YOU CAN'T BE SEEN AT ALL' THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN THE POEMS AND THE COMPOSITIONS WERE JUST A HUMAN EXPERIENCE. AND I THINK IT WAS KIND OF BEAUTIFUL.
What type of content did people gravitate towards?
Poets always have muses. So there's always quite a few people who speak about loves that they lost. There were a couple of people who had spoken about death. I myself delivered one of my pieces about mental health. Then there were all sorts of other things about all sorts of other facets of the human experience. There's sex, there's alcohol abuse, drug abuse. They're not all about issues. Some of them were just genuinely happy pieces, about a beautiful day when you’ve got nothing on your to-do list. I think we hit on almost every topic.
That sounds beautiful.
It was wonderful. I'd definitely do it again if they ever schedule it again.
My name is Scott Smith and I believe I was asked to be a part of this project because I'm one of the conservative outliers in a very liberal community at the University of Cincinnati.
Yeah, that's accurate. Would you go ahead and describe for us some of your personal beliefs or policies that you find to be different than your peers?
Generally speaking, as far as beliefs and policies go, when I say I'm conservative leaning I have mostly a large distrust of the government. I don't believe that there are many things that the government does well that couldn't be handled in other ways. There are very few exceptions to that and I think that the government often just gets in the way of the evolution of mankind. I think that there's a lot of red tape and bureaucracy that gums up the works of progress and actually, in some cases, makes it more difficult for people to render aid to those who need it. I don't really like using labels.
I WOULD SAY CONSERVATIVE IS A FAIR ESTIMATION, BUT I JUST FEEL LIKE ASSIGNING A SPECIFIC WORD OR POLICY TO IT IS KIND OF A GENERALIZATION. I DON'T LIKE TO CALL PEOPLE REPUBLICANS OR DEMOCRATS. IF I HAD TO USE ONE, I'D SAY I'M PROBABLY CLOSEST TO A LIBERTARIAN. BUT THERE ARE EVEN SOME LIBERTARIAN THINGS THAT I DISAGREE WITH.
Do you think that you're particularly outspoken about your beliefs?
I don't believe I'm particularly outspoken. I mean if the conversation happens, I'm willing to let it happen. But generally speaking, I can usually tell if someone is able to have the conversation in a civil way. And that's not very often. So it doesn't seem like you can have the conversation very often. That's true of all politics or faiths or religions. People just get really upset and emotional with difficult topics. I'll definitely advocate for my policies, but only if I believe that we can do so in a kind way.
Talk to me about what civility means to you.
CIVILITY IN A CONVERSATION IS PARTICULARLY LETTING THE OTHER PERSON SPEAK. I BELIEVE THAT YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO PARROT BACK WHAT THAT PERSON SAID TO YOU IN A WAY THAT THEY ARE OKAY WITH SO THAT THEY CAN FEEL HEARD. THAT WAY YOU CAN AVOID BIAS IN YOUR LISTENING.
I also believe that civility is about understanding that you don't have to agree with somebody to respect them. I think that's where a lot of the miscommunication happens. I have an opinion that differs from somebody, they believe that that means that I'm being disrespectful. It's like no, I have a difference of opinion and I would like to discuss why
Is having conversations about differing opinions something that you're interested in or that you pursue?
Oh yeah. I definitely believe that part of the whole life and living and growth and learning experience is being exposed to differences of opinions and having difficult emotional conversations. I don't believe that people grow any other way. Growth comes through conflict of some sort. You see that a lot with the ambush interviewers where somebody representing a particular political stance will just go out on a college campus and ambush people with questions. That's not helpful because that's just putting people on edge and not actually leading to discussion so much as defense.
What's one way that you pursue growth in your everyday life?
Well, I love to have the difficult conversations with people. I try to surround myself with the people who can have them civilly, which is quite interesting because maybe only two or three people that I know are aligned with my political beliefs and my faith beliefs. Whereas most of the other people that I have the conversations with are not aligned. I try to keep those relationships alive because I think it's really important to always have those conflicting viewpoints.
So you spend a lot of time with people who don't share your beliefs.
Yeah. But I almost always try to keep it a one-on-one thing.
That makes sense. It can be a little bit too crowded in a conversation otherwise. How would you describe the environment that you experience at DAAP? Is it pretty different from the beliefs and values that you hold personally?
Oh yeah. It's quite different. And, you know, I get it. The left side of the aisle is quite a bit more appealing to young people. I'll admit there's some parts of it that appeal to me too. From my perspective, it has been so virulently left and so combatively left that you can't even have a conversation about it.
YOU CAN'T EVEN TELL PEOPLE THAT YOU'RE CONSERVATIVE BECAUSE YOU'LL AUTOMATICALLY BE ACCUSED OF SO MANY THINGS. AT UC, I'VE BEEN ACCUSED OF BEING A RACIST, OF BEING A NAZI, OF BEING A HOMOPHOBE, OF BEING ALL THESE TERRIBLE, HATEFUL THINGS. ALL I DID WAS SAY THAT I DON'T THINK THAT THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD BE INVOLVED IN THIS THING.
We didn't even talk about race or homosexuality or any of those hot topic items. They just hear that I'm conservative leaning and they automatically assume, 'well we can't talk to him'.
When do these things come up for you in school?
There was actually one situation where I was at this club. I mean it was kind of like a club. They were trying to make it a club. They just didn't quite have enough people for it yet. But it was a public speaking oriented sort of organization. I gave a presentation about a political belief of mine and they actually kind of got a mob mentality of getting me out and shooing me away. That's probably the worst example of it that I've faced. But other times it's just been conversations with people where it seems to be going pretty civil and then I say something they don't like and all of a sudden I'm a racist. Half the time that wasn't even the topic. I remember there was one time that the topic was feminism and I said something the other person didn't like and they accused me of being a racist. Race had never even come up in it. I think she meant to say sexist, but even still, I don't believe that what I said was sexist. You can't really have nice conversations about tough topics.
Would you say that liberal college space can be a little bit exclusive?
Yeah. Yeah it can.
Do you think that's affected the way that you've experienced your education?
Oh, I think that's been a huge part of it. I don't want to name names but there is a particular professor, I'm sure you know what I'm talking about, who is so far left that they have spent two out of three hours of their classes each week just talking about politics and raging about the current presidency.
Raging is a good word for it.
It's maybe raving cause it just seems like he goes on and it doesn't seem like there's actually a whole lot of anger so much as just frustration. But yeah, it does get in the way a lot. College has this huge social aspect to it. Half the time I feel like people don't even want to talk to me about stuff that isn't even related to politics or religion. Just because I have that association, people tend to avoid getting to know me.
Do you think that these are ever constructive ways to use class or do you ever get frustrated that your education time is being spent on this?
I don't want to say that it's not constructive cause sometimes I do think it is constructive. My problem is I don't find that it's constructive when I am one out of maybe three people in the entire industrial design class that I'm in that I know is conservative. Everybody else is liberal and all the professors are liberal. If it was a little more even maybe then we could have some real conversations. But because it's so unbalanced, it just feels like I'd be playing the defensive.
Do you find yourself stepping up into these conversations or do you get called out sometimes or do you mostly stay quiet when you can?
I think that depends on the situation. I don't like to step up in a very large environment with a lot of people. In class, probably not. But outside of class, when there's like four or five people in the studio and then we can actually have a conversation- I don't mind that. Basically I just try to avoid the mob mentality and I try to avoid the us-versus-them appearance. I don't like it to seem like I'm just doing this to be contradictory.
I DON'T LIKE TO APPEAR AS THOUGH I'M JUST TRYING TO RESPOND TO PEOPLE'S REBUTTALS AS OPPOSED TO HAVE A CONVERSATION AND LISTEN TO PEOPLE'S CONCERNS. I WANT THE DISCOURSE TO BE A LITTLE MORE GENUINE. AND I THINK TO DO THAT YOU NEED TO HAVE A SMALLER SETTING.
Do you ever find that your opinions or the opinions of the people that you're speaking with are actually affected by the discourse?
Oh yeah. A couple of times. There was a one particular instance where I was walking with a friend. This friend being about as far left as you can go. He's actually a communist. I think that's literally the left of the spectrum.
Self identified?
Yes, self identified. He's quite proud of it. So we were walking around campus and we were about to go get some food. We saw probably one of the weirdest things I've seen on campus. It was a protest by this group. They were homosexual furries with guns.
Fascinating.
Yeah. We both thought that was fascinating cause it was just so specific. It was a pro gun rally with a bunch of raccoons and foxes and they were just marching through campus with a rifle strapped to their back. That led to a pretty interesting conversation about gun control. That was the thing that we got centered on because I don't think either of us were really qualified to talk about the other facets of that event. So we talked about gun control for a while. He kind of ended up admitting that his policies on gun control were too harsh. I also admitted that my thoughts on gun control were not so great either. I'm very much pro second amendment. Before that conversation I believed that the best solution was to arm everybody and make sure that everybody's packing. I had case study for that. I think it's Switzerland over in Europe that issues a semiautomatic rifle to every adult, and they have one of the lowest gun violence crime rates in the world. Then he brought up the points of, 'so you're telling me you've never seen a person and thought to yourself. 'I really wouldn't like them to have a gun'?'
Having had a really good example right in front of you.
Well, I mean I won't really speak to the furry community. But when he said that it made me think, 'Oh my gosh, when I go to the shooting range, there are a couple people on the shooting range that I wish were not on the shooting range'. For me being pro-gun is also being very pro gun safety. And there are some people that you see that are 'pro-gun' that will walk onto the shooting range and not keep their barrel pointed down range. Or they'll put their finger on the trigger when the gun is loaded, but they're not pointed down range. Yeah, okay. I see your point. There's definitely some people that I can agree I don't want them to have guns either. So we both kind of made concessions in that conversation.
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. It seems that the way that you treat the discourses is incredibly respectful and above all levelheaded because it's very difficult to have any type of conversation when that's not the case. Are there locations or groups on campus where you do feel completely comfortable?
There is one where I feel more comfortable than most. That would be the Cincinnati Poetry Collective. The CPC. They are a group that I was associated with before they were officially recognized by campus. The idea behind the Cincinnati Poetry Collective is it's basically just a writing-oriented group where there are weekly meetings and you can come and present your work. You can ask your coworkers for critiques. That whole group is just such a hodgepodge of so many different life experiences and so many different perspectives that I do feel more comfortable sharing some of my views amongst those people. Of course, there's also these very strong rules about not being combative and not being disrespectful because it's a poetry club.
THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO PRESENT POETRY ABOUT SOME VERY, VERY TOUCHY SUBJECTS. THERE'S PEOPLE WHO PRESENT ABOUT SUICIDE, ABOUT RAPES, ABOUT ALL SORTS OF VERY EMOTIONALLY CHARGED THINGS. I THINK OVERALL THAT GROUP HAS JUST DEVELOPED A CULTURE OF BEING RESPECTFUL AND BEING ACCEPTING OF WHAT SOMEBODY HAS TO SAY WHEN THEY'RE UP THERE SAYING IT.
DO YOU LIKE TO WRITE AND PRESENT YOUR WORK AT THESE EVENTS?
OH, I LOVE IT. I LOVE IT. IT'S ONE OF THE FEW TIMES THAT I FEEL LIKE I'M ACTUALLY BEING HEARD. A LOT OF TIMES I JUST FEEL LIKE THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE AREN'T REALLY LISTENING TO ME TO HEAR WHAT I HAVE TO SAY OR TO HEAR MY EXPERIENCES. THEY'RE JUST LISTENING TO ME SO THAT THEY CAN LIGHT UP THAT CONSERVATIVE GUY ON CAMPUS. THEY WANT TO BE ABLE TO RESPOND TO ME AS OPPOSED TO HEAR ME. I HAVE FOUND THAT THROUGH POETRY I AM ABLE TO REALLY GET MY POINT ACROSS IN A WAY THAT'S NOT COMBATIVE, BUT THAT'S COMPASSIONATE.
Who are your influences in poetry?
Probably my biggest influence is a guy by the name of Shane Koyczan. He's Canadian, I believe. Shane Koyczan is a spoken word poet. When I first discovered him, I was going through a lot of... a lot of... just a lot of stuff. Yeah. I mean I can tell you about that for hours, so I'll just say a lot of stuff. It’s just the way that he speaks. First of all, he is an overweight white dude with a beret and a neck beard. He does not seem like the kind of person that you would want to listen to, but he gets up on that stage and his presence and his compositions just grab your attention. That dude can break your heart in 20 seconds or less. I wanted to be able to do that. You know, I've often felt like that guy who is just kind of an average Joe looking person who just slips through the cracks. I wanted to be able to do the thing that Shane Koyczan does and get on stage and make those presentations and really just grab people by their emotions and do something with it.
Would you consider yourself to be a pretty emotional guy?
I would. I'm also a pragmatist, which is kind of weird. They don't seem to go hand in hand. There are some times that I'll get really emotional about something. But I have gotten pretty good at being able to step away for a moment to put my emotions down, go back into a situation with my pragmatism, and figure it out. Then usually by the time I have it figured out the emotions have pretty much died. I have aspects of both and I feel like I can move between them.
Do you ever present or recite your work elsewhere?
I have. Secretly.
Secretly. What's that mean?
Well, there was this one presentation event that I went to that was out of state and it was a masked event. The idea was that all the presenters had to cover up everything. It was like a social experiment. You couldn't show any of your skin. You had to pad yourself in such a way that nobody could tell whether you're a male or a female. Almost like the Masked Singer if you've seen that show. The whole idea was they were trying to separate the speaker from all associated stereotypes. I thought that was pretty interesting. I've also done a couple of open mic events nearby. But nothing huge. It's mostly been bars and coffee shops.
What was that event like?
The specific one with the all the masked stuff? It was a little weird. It was a little weird- like a beautiful kind of weird.
IT WAS REALLY INTERESTING. A LOT OF TIMES IN POETRY YOU'LL HEAR ABOUT GENDER DISCRIMINATION, RACIAL DISCRIMINATION. YOU'LL HEAR ABOUT PEOPLE DEALING WITH SELF IMAGE ISSUES. WHENEVER THE POETS AND THE SPEAKERS WERE TOLD 'YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO USE ANY OF THAT AMMUNITION AND WE'RE ALSO GOING TO MAKE SURE YOU CAN'T BE SEEN AT ALL' THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN THE POEMS AND THE COMPOSITIONS WERE JUST A HUMAN EXPERIENCE. AND I THINK IT WAS KIND OF BEAUTIFUL.
What type of content did people gravitate towards?
Poets always have muses. So there's always quite a few people who speak about loves that they lost. There were a couple of people who had spoken about death. I myself delivered one of my pieces about mental health. Then there were all sorts of other things about all sorts of other facets of the human experience. There's sex, there's alcohol abuse, drug abuse. They're not all about issues. Some of them were just genuinely happy pieces, about a beautiful day when you’ve got nothing on your to-do list. I think we hit on almost every topic.
That sounds beautiful.
It was wonderful. I'd definitely do it again if they ever schedule it again.