Ohio Star
This block can often be found in samplers and beginner quilts because of its slightly higher skill level and its fun look. This oft varied upon pattern is perfect for someone who has built their community in Ohio.
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Jennifer Cox
Fiberge Owner
Jennifer Cox is the Communications Director at Cincinnati’s Contemporary Art Center, and owns Pleasant Ridge’s own Fibergé- a fabric yarn, and craft store that also serves as a gathering place. In this interview she talks about the value of making, how to build a community, and her lease on life.
Just to start off this recording, why don't you tell me your name and why you think I asked you to be part of this project?
Sure. My name is Jennifer Cox. I would assume that one of the reasons you asked me to join the project is because I run a shop that sells quilting fabric and materials and does lessons and also sells yarn and fiber. I spend a lot of time on social media trying to find ways for our community to be connected. So it's not just a retail operation, but in the spirit of makers, it's a bringing together community type project that we're running. That's what I'd say about why you picked me.
Yeah, definitely. I'm very interested in your history with textile arts, things like that. And then also obviously some of the other things that you get into, so we can definitely talk about that.
Sure.
So did you learn how to knit, and so when you were a kid, is that something you did with your mom?
I did, but like many children, you go through a stage where you love your mother and your love for your father and you think they're genius and then you hate them for like six years and then you come back to it. So my mother taught my sister and I to knit and crochet when we were children. I learned how to do it and I didn't do it for many years. I'd started again when I went to graduate school and that was in 2000. I lived in a city where I didn't know anybody, and found that this was a great kind of feeling-less-lonely hobby because even though I was doing it by myself, the end product was usually for somebody else. I loved doing that work and then got into quilting just around like I'd say about 2004 and spent some time going to shops on the East coast, cause that's where I was living at. Denise Schmidt ran some great workshops for folks learning how to patchwork quilt. It's kind of the thing when quilting or making became this kind of hipster-ish, for lack of a better word, thing to do. There were lots of outlets and lots of resources for people to come together and learn. I took advantage of that and started my quilting practice then.
That's awesome. It does have this kind of resurgence. Tell us a little bit about your shop.
So the shop is based in Pleasant Ridge. One of the things that I think is the hallmark of the shop is this big community table that we have where we hold classes, but we also just have it there in the stop. It takes up a lot of room in the shop, a lot of retail space. But I think it's important because it's an invitation to people to come and stay and sit awhile. We also have a little reading area in the back that we were lucky enough to have a customer donate a sofa and some coffee tables for us to have that in the back room so people can sit there in a quiet space and do their work. One of the things that we love is we have open making hours every Sunday- well, not now, but every normal Sunday. It doesn't matter what you're working on- if you knit, crochet, sew, bringing it in from 11 to 4 and people are there around the table to help each other. I'm there all the time, but there's some questions that people show up with that I don't know the answer to. But there's likely somebody around the table who does have an answer who can help a person with a project. The shop has been around for quite some time under many different owners and in many different parts of the city. It's been in Pleasant Ridge for about 5 years now. I've only been involved with it for about a year, less than a year actually. 8 months. When I first found out that the owner was about to sell the shop, my initial reaction was, 'Oh, I want to buy it and move it down to OTR where there is millennial money'. But what I found out was that although I might've been able to do some increased retail and transactional sales, the heart of the community Pleasant Ridge is just so supportive of the shop and makes things happen in ways that I don't think would happen elsewhere in the city.
PLEASANT RIDGE IS A REALLY COMMUNITY MINDED PLACE. THE DAY THAT I POSTED THAT WE WOULD GIVE PEOPLE TOILET PAPER IF THEY WANTED WAS ONE OF THE HIGHEST GROSSING SALES DAYS I'VE EVER HAD AND I DIDN'T GIVE AWAY A SINGLE ROLL OF TOILET PAPER. AND THAT WAS MY INTENT, 'HEY, YOU GUYS COME AND GET SOME STUFF FOR YOUR BUTTS'. THEY WERE LIKE, 'NOPE'. THEY WERE SO GRACIOUS AND THOUGHT IT WAS SUCH A NICE IDEA FOR US TO GIVE THAT AWAY THAT THEY CAME AND SPENT A TON OF MONEY. I CLOSED THE DOOR THAT DAY WITH MORE TOILET PAPER THAN I HAD TO GIVE AWAY THAT MORNING WHEN I OPENED.
That's amazing. That really speaks to how supportive that community is. You don't have any plans to relocate then?
No. I think that the idea of community building for me is not just in a community where you are, but that you bring that spirit elsewhere. So I'd like to stay in Pleasant Ridge, but I'd also like to find opportunities to do pop up shops and maker-in-a-minute things. Be on the street corner or be in a little van and talk to people who don't know that they want to make things and give them opportunities to learn about 'here's a project that you can do that you never thought you could'. Maker On The Street, things like that. Having a home base in Pleasant Ridge that's as supportive as it is of course I'd like to keep that. But to an extent it can be in other communities too. I do think that making belongs on- if you think about the Maslow's triangle of needs, the bottom was always food and shelter, but I think there's something that should be there too, which is about feeling your spirit. Making is a way that that happens. So I'm anxious to be a part of bringing that to as many people as I can.
Yes speak to that a little bit more, about the fulfillment you get from making.
IT'S INTERESTING BECAUSE ON THE ONE HAND MAKING CAN BE A SOLITARY PURSUIT. I'M SITTING BY MYSELF AND WORKING ON MAKING SOMETHING. BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, I FEEL LIKE THERE IS A COMMUNITY BEFORE US OF PEOPLE WHO LEARN THAT SKILL AND PASS IT DOWN TO EACH OTHER. SO EVEN IF I'M DOING IT BY MYSELF, I'M STILL IN COMMUNITY WITH OTHER PEOPLE WHO MADE THAT POSSIBLE.
And at the end of the day, a lot of times the things that I make end up being in the hands of somebody else. They're used by somebody else. So there's that part of connection that happens as well. I don't know. I kind of forgot the question if I'm honest. If I didn't answer it correctly, let me know.
That's okay. I was just asking you about the fulfillment that comes from making. I really did like what you say about how it's not just about the people in the room. These skills are handed down in such long trains of people that it kind of does make it so every single time you make something it involves those people.
Even if people do know how to knit, they'll come to the beginning classes or whatever or if they know how to sew they'll come to beginning quilting. I've never asked somebody who said, 'Oh, I just taught myself'. It's always like 'my mother and my auntie, my grandmother'. Somebody has taught them a skill. Maybe they went away from it, but they're coming back. But I do think, as opposed to other talents or skills like making music which is intangible, when you're making something that's tangible, that's actually a physical product when you're finished with it and you get to use it. It's funny. I've never felt prouder of myself than when I made my first pair of socks. I still have them and every Christmas I make my dad a pair of socks and if I don't finish in time, he's livid on Christmas morning, so I have to do them. There's something about having put your two hands to work on something that was a ball of string, but at the end of the day becomes something that somebody uses and loves and it serves a purpose for them is really kind of nice.
Definitely. Can you tell me some of your favorite things that you have made?
Yes. Most of the things I've made that are my favorites I don't have anymore. One of the things I tell my students all the time is 'it's ok, make a mistake. It's absolutely okay. At the end of the day, somebody can fit this sweater. We'll figure out who'. So most of the things that I made that are my favorites are in my mother's closet because she's a teeny tiny little woman and I sometimes cast on for a sweater that I think is going to fit me and it doesn't. And so she takes them. I would also say that I use patterns a lot, but most of my favorite things are things that I make up on the fly. I'm currently working on a sweater for not this year's Pride Parade cause I don't think I'll finish it, but for next year. I found some beautiful yarn at a thrift store here in Cincinnati. It's all rainbow colors. And I thought, wouldn't it be fun to have a rainbow sweater? This is not going to fit me. I can tell you right now, but I'm making up the pattern as I go and keeping notes. And so maybe it lives in an auction for an organization that can use it as part of their AIDS Walk or Pride Parade booth. I know what's going to be beautiful. I think the things I make from patterns come out perfectly because I follow the pattern, but the things I make as I go come out way more interesting and way more fun for folks.
I USUALLY WILL SAY IF I MAKE A MISTAKE OR I DROP A STITCH, LIKE I TOLD MY STUDENTS, IT'S NOT THE END OF THE WORLD. WE DON'T HAVE TO FIX EVERYTHING. I PUT A SAFETY PIN IN IT AND WE'LL COME BACK TO IT LATER AND FIGURE OUT A WAY TO TIE IT UP. BUT I ALSO MARK IT IF IT'S A GIFT OR I'M GOING TO GIVE IT TO SOMEBODY WITH A NOTE THAT SAYS, 'YOU KNOW, THIS IS THE PART IN THE PATTERN WHERE I MADE A MISTAKE. AND IT WASN'T BECAUSE I WASN'T PAYING ATTENTION. IT WASN'T BECAUSE I DIDN'T CARE ENOUGH ABOUT YOU TO BE PERFECT IN THE SWEATER. IT'S BECAUSE OUR LIFE IS FULL OF MISTAKES. SO HERE'S THE ONE, NOBODY CAN SEE IT. YOU'LL KNOW WHAT'S THERE. REMEMBER THAT WHEN YOU RUN YOUR FINGER OVER THE INSIDE OF THE SWEATER AND FEEL THAT BUMP WHERE THAT KNOT IS- THAT'S ME SAYING HI TO YOU'. AND PEOPLE LOVE IT.
That's really beautiful and inspiring. It's the best way to look at what some may call a mistake for sure. One thing that I'm grappling right now in my personal artistic practice is when I make something for someone and I spend all this time on it, I get so attached and then all of a sudden I want to keep it for myself. Do you ever experience that?
I don't honestly. So this is not my job job. My real life job is, I'm the Director Of Communications for The Contemporary Arts Center. And for before I took that job, I was unemployed for about a year. I came back to Cincinnati to work at Interbrand and then Interbrand closed like two months after I got here. So I kind of live in the marketing and advertising and branding world. When I was done for that year, I had nothing to do and was kind of doing freelance work here and there. I spent a lot of time making and I would just finish stuff and put it in my Rubbermaid tub and then it would just sit there because how many hats does anybody need? Right. So I was at that time making things, like just making to make, to keep my hands busy, to feel fulfilled and not necessarily worried about like what the outcome was. And then I sold all of those. I think the thing that got me out of wanting to keep them was I went to City Flea that Christmas, two Christmases ago. And so everything I had at the market there. So I was like, 'Oh, people like the stuff that I'm making. So what better way to get it out into the world than to make it to sell it, or make it to give it away?' It just makes me almost cry every time I'm with my mother out and somebody says, 'Oh my gosh, where did you get that sweater?' And she's like, 'my daughter made this for me. Isn't it beautiful?' And I'm like, 'you're damn skippy it's beautiful. You can have one too lady if you give me a hundred bucks'. I know you can never make the money that you put into the work as an individual maker, but I don't care. I'd rather not have the detritus of my making all over my house. So I don't necessarily want to keep it. And frankly, as I said to you, oftentimes I make things because' the pattern looks beautiful or I have an idea and I don't necessarily think about can I fit this or can I wear this or is this for me?' I just want to make it, I'm more of a process maker than a product maker. So when it's done, I'm ready for it to go.
So what work do you do for the CAC?
So I'm the Communications Director, so I wrote for instance the statement that we had about coronavirus. I do our social content calendar, our strategy for that. I manage all the promotional activities for various exhibits and programs that we have and lead our strategic planning focus. So that's my job.
That's really cool. That's awesome.
Yeah, I like it. It's one of the best places I've ever worked in my life. I'd say the second best place, my first best place was PBS. But this is a close second and I love working there.
You have cool jobs. Do you think you were probably happier at one of those than like a Goldman Sachs anyway?
Let me tell you. Before I went to grad school they had like a six week summer program for students of color going to get their MBAs and it was a piece of trash, but they paid me so much money that I loved it. I loved the money. I hated the work.
I DO BELIEVE THAT WE HAVE, AS THIS GENERATION, BEEN SOLD THIS IDEA THAT IF YOU JUST DO THE THING THAT BRINGS YOU JOY, YOU'RE GOING TO BE SO FULFILLED YOU WON'T NEED MONEY. THAT'S BULLSHIT. SALLIE MAE DOESN'T CARE IF I'M PSYCHICALLY FULFILLED. THEY WANT THEIR MONEY BACK.
But I will say having that much money at once- I made more money that summer than I made in my full time job at PBS after I graduated for the whole year. That said I would never want to work there. I think if you think about the people who are attracted to those jobs, not to say anything negative about bankers or whatever, but the nicest people I've met are broke and doing work that they love to do.
I HAD A BOSS AT PBS WHO TOLD ME ONCE THAT I HAD THE GOLDMAN SACHS AND BUSINESS SCHOOL AND LAW SCHOOL MENTALITY AT MY HEAD THINKING I HAD TO BE THERE 14 HOURS A DAY AND PRODUCE ALL THIS WORK- AND IT WAS ONE THURSDAY AFTERNOON AND SHE WAS LEAVING AND SHE'S LIKE, 'JEN, LET ME JUST TELL YOU WHY THE UNIVERSE IS NOT WORKING FOR YOU. THE GIFT OF YOUR LIFE, OF ALL OF OUR LIVES, IS THAT THERE ARE ALL THESE HORSES OUT FOR US TO RIDE AND FOR US TO LOOK AT AND FEEL BEAUTIFUL ABOUT. AND YOU SPEND ALL YOUR TIME IN THE STABLES, MUCKING THEM OUT. THAT'S AN INSULT TO THE REST OF HUMANITY AND TO THE UNIVERSE. SO GO HOME'.
And I was like, 'Christine!' But you know, that is a thing that I've carried with me for the rest of my life, or the rest of my professional life. Proof of work isn't as important as proof of life. We all know that I did my job. I don't need to prove it in exorbitant ways to you. I'd rather show up as a full human being into whatever environment I'm in and feel like my creativity is not stifled. I still have to do the job that I'm paid to do, but I do it as 100% a full human being, not just as this kind of slice of pie in a pie chart that you pay for this part of my being.
So what other parts of your life do you like to add to that pie? Do you have other hobbies that you do?
I do a lot of volunteer work with elderly folks and with pets. I have two rescue dogs myself. One of whom, I don't if you can hear, has been kind of whining in the background. I volunteer with the humane society a lot at adoption events. I also volunteer teaching elderly folks- maybe not so much teaching as reminding them what they knew about crafting and making. I was doing a loom weaving class at the rec center in Madisonville and at the JCC- now that's kind of canceled until we can get back together. But I do those, I don't do anything like cook because as I said, I have two dogs and their hair is everywhere. I don't want dog hair in my food. Those are the other two things I spend my time doing. Then I have family, here so that's the reason I came back to Cincinnati is my parents are here. I spend a lot of time with them. I wouldn't call it recreational time cause it's usually my mother bossing me to do things, but I enjoy my family in bits and spurts. So I spent a lot of time with them.
That's really wonderful. It sounds like you've put a lot of thought into the various different things that you spend your time doing.
YEAH, I TRY. I TRY. BECAUSE LIFE IS SHORT. I SPENT A LOT OF MY LIFE WORRYING ABOUT HOW TO MAKE OTHER PEOPLE HAPPY AND IS EVERYBODY ELSE OKAY. BUT THE JOY FOR ME HAS BEEN FOCUSING ON 'HOW AM I OKAY AND HOW AM I HAPPY'. IT'S TURNED OUT THAT A LOT OF WHAT MAKES ME HAPPY IS IN INTERACTIONS WITH OTHER PEOPLE. I JUST HAVE TO FIGURE OUT WAYS TO MAKE THAT HAPPEN IN A WAY THAT DOESN'T HURT ME OR TAKE TIME AWAY FROM STUFF I NEED TO DO TO KEEP ME SAFE AND HEALTHY AND HAPPY.
Certainly. Are there any making methods that you haven't tried that you would like to get into?
I do have a banjo that I also bought on a drunken birthday binge that I would love to learn how to play better than I do right now. That might be something I do over this quarantine period. It's a strange hobby. I don't know why I picked up the banjo. Like what other funky middle aged black women play the banjo? But I show up with it, people are like, 'are you in the right class?' Like yes, it's me.
I love that you are trying to play the banjo.
I can only play four songs. But I kill those four songs.
But that is just so different. Learning music is hard when you haven't been taught that from a young age.
But the thing is it's harder. The banjo is the hardest instrument. If I had known this at the time, I would've bought something else. I grew up playing the cello and the piano. I went to college and got part of my undergrad with a scholarship because I played in the orchestra. But if you can read music, learning to play the banjo is almost harder than if you can't because there's no notes. It's just like dots and lines. It's ridiculous. There's so many times I want to throw this thing on the ground and forget it. It's very, very not musical, which makes me sad. But also determined. Cause I spent my $160 on this instrument. I'm going to learn how to play it.
That's really cool. The banjo. Wow. What a choice.
I'm from Ohio and my mothers' from West Virginia. There's something about the close harmonies that exist in bluegrass music. Two people can sing a song with the notes so close and I can physically feel or my heart being pulled by how lamenting the tone is. I gravitate to bluegrass because of that. Lizzo is my favorite, don't get me wrong. But there's something about the close harmonies and bluegrass. I'm always drawn to a minor key song just because you feel something. And so that's kind of why. Not to mention the fact, as I said, it was my birthday and I was drunk and I bought this. So there's that part. But it's also the memories that evokes for me of Alison Krauss and Patti Smith singing these kind of really sad-ish songs that made me want to learn how to play it.
One thing that I'm trying to ask everyone involved in this project is 'what would you define as your community?' Do you think that you have a loyalty to Cincinnati geographically? Is it more of the people who have shared interests with you? What would you define that as?
I would think of it as concentric circles. My community is first and foremost made up of the people who I work with here in the city and who come to the store. They might not necessarily live here, but it's geographically centered around the store because I have people come in from Indianapolis and from Kentucky, from Michigan who come to the shop for specific yarns or, because I've been kind to them online. I think every person who ever comments on anything on Instagram, I write back. That's important to me because people want to feel heard and feel like they're appreciated. And I do appreciate all of them. I might not be in the moment that I do it, but that's what I spend a lot of my weekend doing. Just hearting or reply or saying 'thanks for your feedback' or saying 'yes girl, that sweater looks amazing, can't wait to see you finish it'. That's kind of my closest circle and then my further out circle would be the people who own 'making' businesses. Both in the area and without. I think I have a really good relationship with Silk Road Textiles here in town. They were supporting me before I even got involved with Fibergé and reached out saying, 'you know, I heard that you might be the person who wants to buy it. Let's talk. How can I help you?' So that would be my second row or second ring out circle. And then my third ring out circle is the communities that exist online where I meet people. My Ravelry friends, my Instagram friends, my Etsy friends. I say 'friends', but I might not have ever met these people in real life before. I support them and they support me with likes and comments and with checking in and with sharing thoughts, 'what are we going to do during this hunkered down period?' My community is kind of those three tiers of connections. I think it's driven primarily by geography in the first ring and connection to the store. But beyond that, the connection to other makers or other owners and then the community at large.
Do you think that you would ever see yourself settling up somewhere else? Maybe moving and finding your own community in a different place?
I will say that I do miss living in Chicago. That's where I spent most of my undergrad time and then post undergrad and then I came back there after I finished at PBS. I miss that place just for the vibrancy and for the forced diversity that we had to experience during the daytime. Here in Cincinnati, I never realized how ridiculous the city is. I love it, but no place else would you ever meet a grown up person who says, 'Oh, Hey, where did you go to high school?' Like that's the first thing we want to ask. I miss Chicago for that reason. We all had to be on the bus together. We have forced diversity downtown because we're all working in one mile square area for the financial district where I worked. I miss that and I think about it. I don't think that there's a need for the kind of work that I want to do there. I think here, there's really a need to figure out connection and what connection looks like.
I LOVE THAT ON ANY GIVEN SUNDAY, I CAN LOOK AROUND MY TABLE AND THERE'S TWO 70 YEAR OLD WHITE LADIES, AND A 23 YEAR OLD HISPANIC AMERICAN WOMAN WHO'S GOING TO THE ARMY WHO NEEDS TO LEARN HOW TO SEW THE PATCHES ON HER JACKET, THERE'S TWO 12 YEAR OLD BLACK KIDS WHO JUST WANT TO LEARN HOW TO FINGER KNIT. I LIKE THAT IT'S CLEAR THAT THERE'S A NEED HERE. I KIND OF WANT TO BE HERE WHERE I FEEL GOOD ABOUT MY WORK EVERY DAY.
For me personally, I do just miss Chicago. Oh my God, the Indian food alone. Here is great. There's many wonderful things about Cincinnati. The cost of living is manageable and it's wonderful. But I just miss the fact that you really couldn't choose to isolate yourself from people who are different from you in Chicago because you have to bump up against them every day. And so I miss that part of it.
Do you think that Cincinnati just presents less diversity or maybe it's a little bit more segregated than Chicago?
No, I think Chicago was 100% segregated all day long. Between 5:00 PM and 8:00 AM: segregation. But between 8 and 5 we all got to get along. I think that was the thing that I liked about it. Also that, you know, it's still the Midwest in many ways. Just here in Cincinnati, how many times have you been in a meeting where we're all like, 'we love you, everything is great'. And then you'll leave and you get the emails about how shitty the meeting was and how angry people are. There's that same Midwest goal to please or be in conversation with people and be kind when you're face to face there. But it's still a big city. In Chicago it's more likely than it is here that in the moment people would say 'I love you so much, your sweater is beautiful, but also you're a dummy'. I have to wait a day before I know how a meeting went here because people are like, 'Oh yeah, that sounds great. Thank you for all your hard work. This looks wonderful'. And then two days later I get an email that says, 'you know, I took your document and I redid it the way I really want it because it was all wrong'. What am I going to do? There's no such thing as a cage match at work. I'm not going to fight you. I think people are too afraid to stand up in meetings and say, 'here's what I have to say. This is why I think it's wrong. Please tell me why it's wrong so that I can get the feedback I need'.
Yeah. I think there can be a more Southern Midwestern politeness. We're told that that's the way things are supposed to be for some reason.
THE ONE LESSON MY DAD ALWAYS TAUGHT ME, WHICH I REALLY APPRECIATE, IS THAT YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE WRONG FOR ME TO BE RIGHT AND I DON'T HAVE TO BE WRONG FOR YOU TO BE RIGHT. WE CAN JUST DISAGREE AND COME TO WHATEVER THE SOLUTION IS. AND IT'S OKAY. IT DOESN'T MATTER. YOU'RE NOT BETTER THAN ME BECAUSE YOUR IDEA WAS GOOD AND MINE WASN'T. WE JUST HAD DIFFERENT APPROACHES.
That, to me, is kind of how I live my life, but it's not how we live our lives here. When I was growing up here it was a way different time anyway. But after grad school I left PBS, I worked in New York for a time and while I was there, my mother and my sister and nominated me to be on What Not To Wear cause I was a hot mess. I had a day job at Edelman PR and a side job owning a store called Uptown Hound where we did dog training, dog walking, kenneling, and we had a retail space. I live in Harlem and that was before Harlem was keen for folks to come and gentrify. So it was kind of a gritty neighborhood. I had my dog Lewis at the time and I wanted to be able to not have to get in a cab to go to get his food. We had a great store there. And I remember being on the show and having them say like, 'Oh, we have to throw this out. We have to throw that out, what do you want to get rid of?' And I said, 'I don't care. Get rid of everything, it's fine. Because none of this defines me'. I'm just trying to live my life and make everybody else happy and have a good place for dogs to have access to food that people on the Upper West Side have. And I love that. I've told people who I've worked with sporadically that I was on it, because people would ask me, 'was that you?' It was so funny. It's such a humorous show. I had a great time. I think that they were not happy with me because I didn't have a crying breakdown moment. But what I loved about it is every night when they said, 'do your video', I would be working on a pair of socks. The same pair of socks for the whole five days that I gave to one of the crew members when I was finished. Because there's a lot of downtime and I'd just be sitting while they were moving cables or whatever and I'd be like, 'I'll help you'. And they're like, 'you're not union. Sit down'. When it was over and it appeared on the television station and people who I knew saw it, there's a girl who I knew from high school- I was friends with her sister who was older, who was my age. She found my number and called me and said, 'you know, I just want to thank you because I saw your show. And it just reminded me about how to be in the world. You saved my life when I was in high school'. I didn't realize this. She had super, super thick glasses and ridiculous braces and her teeth were all bananas. She had looked like Tina from Bob's Burgers. I never, never even saw that. I thought she was hilarious. Everything she said was so funny. I was just friends with her because I'm like, 'I don't care if you're an eighth grade and I'm a senior, you're hilarious. Let's hang out'. That's the kind of thing that I wish wouldn't be weird that that happened. It should be like you find the person, you find your tribe, you all love each other or you all support each other or you all have something that connects you and it shouldn't be that somebody is surprised that you like them or that you want to be around them. That's my goal in life. Everybody should know that in how they live. Everybody except for Donald Trump. Let me clear- that bastard should just burned in a dumpster fire. But I just think we spend all this time kind of putting people in boxes and groups. You're this kind of kid. You're that kind of kid. You're this kind of maker. You're that kind of maker. If you just live your life and are not making people upset and you have something funny to say, I'm here for it. All day.
That sounds like a lesson that you've spent some time honing in on. That's awesome.
Yeah. It changed my life when she called me and said that. She was like, 'do you remember me?' And I'm like, 'of course I remember you. You played the oboe. You were always the girl who in orchestra practice the teacher would say, 'Hey Andrea, I played the A we can tune each other''. The other thing is we were in orchestra. I was a cool kid but I also played the cello. It doesn't happen anymore and it makes me sad. Oh my God, I should send you a check for $75 cause this is like therapy.
I'm glad that you're enjoying it. I hate to call up all these people for my project and ask for their time, but I feel like every single time I have a conversation with someone for this project, it kind of ends up in this place where we're no longer talking about their business or their volunteering. We're talking about these types of things.
It's shitty for you because I feel like this is a whole nother project that you could do, but also good that this is happening. I hope you're getting stuff that you can use. If you need me to be more specific about the making stuff, ask me. I'll try to stay on topic.
No, this is perfect. I think a huge part of my project is just acknowledging the history of the way that people make things. Which, as you know, it's a bunch of people who might have a lot of differences, but they get in a room and they're learning this skill or they're just kicking back and hanging out and exactly like you and I are doing now, you end up talking to each other really honestly, you end up sharing vulnerabilities. You end up imparting hard-earned wisdom onto each other just through this venue of making. And that is a huge part of my project as well.
I wish we could be open so I can invite you to Sunday Open Making because I hate to go. Cause it's Sunday and I just want some French toast bitches. But when I get there we always have snacks. We always have wine. We always have coffee and tea. The things that happen around the table- there's a woman who comes whose grandson is my best friend on Twitch now. For some reason. You know what I mean? Why am I even on Twitch? He was like, 'you should do this and we can be friends'. I'm like, 'okay, I'm ready. Let's do it'. He's seven years old. I wouldn't ever have a reason to talk to Henry, but I do and I won't stop because I think about this as my legacy. To be this kind of conduit, but also connecting myself, for my own personal fulfillment, to these people. There's a woman who comes, Lynn, who is probably my best friend at the store. She's so annoying and is always bossing me. But she shows up for me in ways that I don't even understand why. Every time there's a holiday, all the Christmas decorations in the window, she got from her attic and gave to me. She happened to be walking by yesterday. I ordered from the Girl Scouts because they were having trouble selling their cookies. Not because I'm a great person. Those Lemon-Ups are the bomb. I'll take all of them. I ordered like 20 boxes from them. She's like, 'Oh this guy is here. I'll just pay him. You can pay me back'. Beautiful. So she has those in her car. Wonderful. She is bossy and terrible but also wonderful. She met a student that she now tutors who was coming in to learn how to knit.
Sure. My name is Jennifer Cox. I would assume that one of the reasons you asked me to join the project is because I run a shop that sells quilting fabric and materials and does lessons and also sells yarn and fiber. I spend a lot of time on social media trying to find ways for our community to be connected. So it's not just a retail operation, but in the spirit of makers, it's a bringing together community type project that we're running. That's what I'd say about why you picked me.
Yeah, definitely. I'm very interested in your history with textile arts, things like that. And then also obviously some of the other things that you get into, so we can definitely talk about that.
Sure.
So did you learn how to knit, and so when you were a kid, is that something you did with your mom?
I did, but like many children, you go through a stage where you love your mother and your love for your father and you think they're genius and then you hate them for like six years and then you come back to it. So my mother taught my sister and I to knit and crochet when we were children. I learned how to do it and I didn't do it for many years. I'd started again when I went to graduate school and that was in 2000. I lived in a city where I didn't know anybody, and found that this was a great kind of feeling-less-lonely hobby because even though I was doing it by myself, the end product was usually for somebody else. I loved doing that work and then got into quilting just around like I'd say about 2004 and spent some time going to shops on the East coast, cause that's where I was living at. Denise Schmidt ran some great workshops for folks learning how to patchwork quilt. It's kind of the thing when quilting or making became this kind of hipster-ish, for lack of a better word, thing to do. There were lots of outlets and lots of resources for people to come together and learn. I took advantage of that and started my quilting practice then.
That's awesome. It does have this kind of resurgence. Tell us a little bit about your shop.
So the shop is based in Pleasant Ridge. One of the things that I think is the hallmark of the shop is this big community table that we have where we hold classes, but we also just have it there in the stop. It takes up a lot of room in the shop, a lot of retail space. But I think it's important because it's an invitation to people to come and stay and sit awhile. We also have a little reading area in the back that we were lucky enough to have a customer donate a sofa and some coffee tables for us to have that in the back room so people can sit there in a quiet space and do their work. One of the things that we love is we have open making hours every Sunday- well, not now, but every normal Sunday. It doesn't matter what you're working on- if you knit, crochet, sew, bringing it in from 11 to 4 and people are there around the table to help each other. I'm there all the time, but there's some questions that people show up with that I don't know the answer to. But there's likely somebody around the table who does have an answer who can help a person with a project. The shop has been around for quite some time under many different owners and in many different parts of the city. It's been in Pleasant Ridge for about 5 years now. I've only been involved with it for about a year, less than a year actually. 8 months. When I first found out that the owner was about to sell the shop, my initial reaction was, 'Oh, I want to buy it and move it down to OTR where there is millennial money'. But what I found out was that although I might've been able to do some increased retail and transactional sales, the heart of the community Pleasant Ridge is just so supportive of the shop and makes things happen in ways that I don't think would happen elsewhere in the city.
PLEASANT RIDGE IS A REALLY COMMUNITY MINDED PLACE. THE DAY THAT I POSTED THAT WE WOULD GIVE PEOPLE TOILET PAPER IF THEY WANTED WAS ONE OF THE HIGHEST GROSSING SALES DAYS I'VE EVER HAD AND I DIDN'T GIVE AWAY A SINGLE ROLL OF TOILET PAPER. AND THAT WAS MY INTENT, 'HEY, YOU GUYS COME AND GET SOME STUFF FOR YOUR BUTTS'. THEY WERE LIKE, 'NOPE'. THEY WERE SO GRACIOUS AND THOUGHT IT WAS SUCH A NICE IDEA FOR US TO GIVE THAT AWAY THAT THEY CAME AND SPENT A TON OF MONEY. I CLOSED THE DOOR THAT DAY WITH MORE TOILET PAPER THAN I HAD TO GIVE AWAY THAT MORNING WHEN I OPENED.
That's amazing. That really speaks to how supportive that community is. You don't have any plans to relocate then?
No. I think that the idea of community building for me is not just in a community where you are, but that you bring that spirit elsewhere. So I'd like to stay in Pleasant Ridge, but I'd also like to find opportunities to do pop up shops and maker-in-a-minute things. Be on the street corner or be in a little van and talk to people who don't know that they want to make things and give them opportunities to learn about 'here's a project that you can do that you never thought you could'. Maker On The Street, things like that. Having a home base in Pleasant Ridge that's as supportive as it is of course I'd like to keep that. But to an extent it can be in other communities too. I do think that making belongs on- if you think about the Maslow's triangle of needs, the bottom was always food and shelter, but I think there's something that should be there too, which is about feeling your spirit. Making is a way that that happens. So I'm anxious to be a part of bringing that to as many people as I can.
Yes speak to that a little bit more, about the fulfillment you get from making.
IT'S INTERESTING BECAUSE ON THE ONE HAND MAKING CAN BE A SOLITARY PURSUIT. I'M SITTING BY MYSELF AND WORKING ON MAKING SOMETHING. BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, I FEEL LIKE THERE IS A COMMUNITY BEFORE US OF PEOPLE WHO LEARN THAT SKILL AND PASS IT DOWN TO EACH OTHER. SO EVEN IF I'M DOING IT BY MYSELF, I'M STILL IN COMMUNITY WITH OTHER PEOPLE WHO MADE THAT POSSIBLE.
And at the end of the day, a lot of times the things that I make end up being in the hands of somebody else. They're used by somebody else. So there's that part of connection that happens as well. I don't know. I kind of forgot the question if I'm honest. If I didn't answer it correctly, let me know.
That's okay. I was just asking you about the fulfillment that comes from making. I really did like what you say about how it's not just about the people in the room. These skills are handed down in such long trains of people that it kind of does make it so every single time you make something it involves those people.
Even if people do know how to knit, they'll come to the beginning classes or whatever or if they know how to sew they'll come to beginning quilting. I've never asked somebody who said, 'Oh, I just taught myself'. It's always like 'my mother and my auntie, my grandmother'. Somebody has taught them a skill. Maybe they went away from it, but they're coming back. But I do think, as opposed to other talents or skills like making music which is intangible, when you're making something that's tangible, that's actually a physical product when you're finished with it and you get to use it. It's funny. I've never felt prouder of myself than when I made my first pair of socks. I still have them and every Christmas I make my dad a pair of socks and if I don't finish in time, he's livid on Christmas morning, so I have to do them. There's something about having put your two hands to work on something that was a ball of string, but at the end of the day becomes something that somebody uses and loves and it serves a purpose for them is really kind of nice.
Definitely. Can you tell me some of your favorite things that you have made?
Yes. Most of the things I've made that are my favorites I don't have anymore. One of the things I tell my students all the time is 'it's ok, make a mistake. It's absolutely okay. At the end of the day, somebody can fit this sweater. We'll figure out who'. So most of the things that I made that are my favorites are in my mother's closet because she's a teeny tiny little woman and I sometimes cast on for a sweater that I think is going to fit me and it doesn't. And so she takes them. I would also say that I use patterns a lot, but most of my favorite things are things that I make up on the fly. I'm currently working on a sweater for not this year's Pride Parade cause I don't think I'll finish it, but for next year. I found some beautiful yarn at a thrift store here in Cincinnati. It's all rainbow colors. And I thought, wouldn't it be fun to have a rainbow sweater? This is not going to fit me. I can tell you right now, but I'm making up the pattern as I go and keeping notes. And so maybe it lives in an auction for an organization that can use it as part of their AIDS Walk or Pride Parade booth. I know what's going to be beautiful. I think the things I make from patterns come out perfectly because I follow the pattern, but the things I make as I go come out way more interesting and way more fun for folks.
I USUALLY WILL SAY IF I MAKE A MISTAKE OR I DROP A STITCH, LIKE I TOLD MY STUDENTS, IT'S NOT THE END OF THE WORLD. WE DON'T HAVE TO FIX EVERYTHING. I PUT A SAFETY PIN IN IT AND WE'LL COME BACK TO IT LATER AND FIGURE OUT A WAY TO TIE IT UP. BUT I ALSO MARK IT IF IT'S A GIFT OR I'M GOING TO GIVE IT TO SOMEBODY WITH A NOTE THAT SAYS, 'YOU KNOW, THIS IS THE PART IN THE PATTERN WHERE I MADE A MISTAKE. AND IT WASN'T BECAUSE I WASN'T PAYING ATTENTION. IT WASN'T BECAUSE I DIDN'T CARE ENOUGH ABOUT YOU TO BE PERFECT IN THE SWEATER. IT'S BECAUSE OUR LIFE IS FULL OF MISTAKES. SO HERE'S THE ONE, NOBODY CAN SEE IT. YOU'LL KNOW WHAT'S THERE. REMEMBER THAT WHEN YOU RUN YOUR FINGER OVER THE INSIDE OF THE SWEATER AND FEEL THAT BUMP WHERE THAT KNOT IS- THAT'S ME SAYING HI TO YOU'. AND PEOPLE LOVE IT.
That's really beautiful and inspiring. It's the best way to look at what some may call a mistake for sure. One thing that I'm grappling right now in my personal artistic practice is when I make something for someone and I spend all this time on it, I get so attached and then all of a sudden I want to keep it for myself. Do you ever experience that?
I don't honestly. So this is not my job job. My real life job is, I'm the Director Of Communications for The Contemporary Arts Center. And for before I took that job, I was unemployed for about a year. I came back to Cincinnati to work at Interbrand and then Interbrand closed like two months after I got here. So I kind of live in the marketing and advertising and branding world. When I was done for that year, I had nothing to do and was kind of doing freelance work here and there. I spent a lot of time making and I would just finish stuff and put it in my Rubbermaid tub and then it would just sit there because how many hats does anybody need? Right. So I was at that time making things, like just making to make, to keep my hands busy, to feel fulfilled and not necessarily worried about like what the outcome was. And then I sold all of those. I think the thing that got me out of wanting to keep them was I went to City Flea that Christmas, two Christmases ago. And so everything I had at the market there. So I was like, 'Oh, people like the stuff that I'm making. So what better way to get it out into the world than to make it to sell it, or make it to give it away?' It just makes me almost cry every time I'm with my mother out and somebody says, 'Oh my gosh, where did you get that sweater?' And she's like, 'my daughter made this for me. Isn't it beautiful?' And I'm like, 'you're damn skippy it's beautiful. You can have one too lady if you give me a hundred bucks'. I know you can never make the money that you put into the work as an individual maker, but I don't care. I'd rather not have the detritus of my making all over my house. So I don't necessarily want to keep it. And frankly, as I said to you, oftentimes I make things because' the pattern looks beautiful or I have an idea and I don't necessarily think about can I fit this or can I wear this or is this for me?' I just want to make it, I'm more of a process maker than a product maker. So when it's done, I'm ready for it to go.
So what work do you do for the CAC?
So I'm the Communications Director, so I wrote for instance the statement that we had about coronavirus. I do our social content calendar, our strategy for that. I manage all the promotional activities for various exhibits and programs that we have and lead our strategic planning focus. So that's my job.
That's really cool. That's awesome.
Yeah, I like it. It's one of the best places I've ever worked in my life. I'd say the second best place, my first best place was PBS. But this is a close second and I love working there.
You have cool jobs. Do you think you were probably happier at one of those than like a Goldman Sachs anyway?
Let me tell you. Before I went to grad school they had like a six week summer program for students of color going to get their MBAs and it was a piece of trash, but they paid me so much money that I loved it. I loved the money. I hated the work.
I DO BELIEVE THAT WE HAVE, AS THIS GENERATION, BEEN SOLD THIS IDEA THAT IF YOU JUST DO THE THING THAT BRINGS YOU JOY, YOU'RE GOING TO BE SO FULFILLED YOU WON'T NEED MONEY. THAT'S BULLSHIT. SALLIE MAE DOESN'T CARE IF I'M PSYCHICALLY FULFILLED. THEY WANT THEIR MONEY BACK.
But I will say having that much money at once- I made more money that summer than I made in my full time job at PBS after I graduated for the whole year. That said I would never want to work there. I think if you think about the people who are attracted to those jobs, not to say anything negative about bankers or whatever, but the nicest people I've met are broke and doing work that they love to do.
I HAD A BOSS AT PBS WHO TOLD ME ONCE THAT I HAD THE GOLDMAN SACHS AND BUSINESS SCHOOL AND LAW SCHOOL MENTALITY AT MY HEAD THINKING I HAD TO BE THERE 14 HOURS A DAY AND PRODUCE ALL THIS WORK- AND IT WAS ONE THURSDAY AFTERNOON AND SHE WAS LEAVING AND SHE'S LIKE, 'JEN, LET ME JUST TELL YOU WHY THE UNIVERSE IS NOT WORKING FOR YOU. THE GIFT OF YOUR LIFE, OF ALL OF OUR LIVES, IS THAT THERE ARE ALL THESE HORSES OUT FOR US TO RIDE AND FOR US TO LOOK AT AND FEEL BEAUTIFUL ABOUT. AND YOU SPEND ALL YOUR TIME IN THE STABLES, MUCKING THEM OUT. THAT'S AN INSULT TO THE REST OF HUMANITY AND TO THE UNIVERSE. SO GO HOME'.
And I was like, 'Christine!' But you know, that is a thing that I've carried with me for the rest of my life, or the rest of my professional life. Proof of work isn't as important as proof of life. We all know that I did my job. I don't need to prove it in exorbitant ways to you. I'd rather show up as a full human being into whatever environment I'm in and feel like my creativity is not stifled. I still have to do the job that I'm paid to do, but I do it as 100% a full human being, not just as this kind of slice of pie in a pie chart that you pay for this part of my being.
So what other parts of your life do you like to add to that pie? Do you have other hobbies that you do?
I do a lot of volunteer work with elderly folks and with pets. I have two rescue dogs myself. One of whom, I don't if you can hear, has been kind of whining in the background. I volunteer with the humane society a lot at adoption events. I also volunteer teaching elderly folks- maybe not so much teaching as reminding them what they knew about crafting and making. I was doing a loom weaving class at the rec center in Madisonville and at the JCC- now that's kind of canceled until we can get back together. But I do those, I don't do anything like cook because as I said, I have two dogs and their hair is everywhere. I don't want dog hair in my food. Those are the other two things I spend my time doing. Then I have family, here so that's the reason I came back to Cincinnati is my parents are here. I spend a lot of time with them. I wouldn't call it recreational time cause it's usually my mother bossing me to do things, but I enjoy my family in bits and spurts. So I spent a lot of time with them.
That's really wonderful. It sounds like you've put a lot of thought into the various different things that you spend your time doing.
YEAH, I TRY. I TRY. BECAUSE LIFE IS SHORT. I SPENT A LOT OF MY LIFE WORRYING ABOUT HOW TO MAKE OTHER PEOPLE HAPPY AND IS EVERYBODY ELSE OKAY. BUT THE JOY FOR ME HAS BEEN FOCUSING ON 'HOW AM I OKAY AND HOW AM I HAPPY'. IT'S TURNED OUT THAT A LOT OF WHAT MAKES ME HAPPY IS IN INTERACTIONS WITH OTHER PEOPLE. I JUST HAVE TO FIGURE OUT WAYS TO MAKE THAT HAPPEN IN A WAY THAT DOESN'T HURT ME OR TAKE TIME AWAY FROM STUFF I NEED TO DO TO KEEP ME SAFE AND HEALTHY AND HAPPY.
Certainly. Are there any making methods that you haven't tried that you would like to get into?
I do have a banjo that I also bought on a drunken birthday binge that I would love to learn how to play better than I do right now. That might be something I do over this quarantine period. It's a strange hobby. I don't know why I picked up the banjo. Like what other funky middle aged black women play the banjo? But I show up with it, people are like, 'are you in the right class?' Like yes, it's me.
I love that you are trying to play the banjo.
I can only play four songs. But I kill those four songs.
But that is just so different. Learning music is hard when you haven't been taught that from a young age.
But the thing is it's harder. The banjo is the hardest instrument. If I had known this at the time, I would've bought something else. I grew up playing the cello and the piano. I went to college and got part of my undergrad with a scholarship because I played in the orchestra. But if you can read music, learning to play the banjo is almost harder than if you can't because there's no notes. It's just like dots and lines. It's ridiculous. There's so many times I want to throw this thing on the ground and forget it. It's very, very not musical, which makes me sad. But also determined. Cause I spent my $160 on this instrument. I'm going to learn how to play it.
That's really cool. The banjo. Wow. What a choice.
I'm from Ohio and my mothers' from West Virginia. There's something about the close harmonies that exist in bluegrass music. Two people can sing a song with the notes so close and I can physically feel or my heart being pulled by how lamenting the tone is. I gravitate to bluegrass because of that. Lizzo is my favorite, don't get me wrong. But there's something about the close harmonies and bluegrass. I'm always drawn to a minor key song just because you feel something. And so that's kind of why. Not to mention the fact, as I said, it was my birthday and I was drunk and I bought this. So there's that part. But it's also the memories that evokes for me of Alison Krauss and Patti Smith singing these kind of really sad-ish songs that made me want to learn how to play it.
One thing that I'm trying to ask everyone involved in this project is 'what would you define as your community?' Do you think that you have a loyalty to Cincinnati geographically? Is it more of the people who have shared interests with you? What would you define that as?
I would think of it as concentric circles. My community is first and foremost made up of the people who I work with here in the city and who come to the store. They might not necessarily live here, but it's geographically centered around the store because I have people come in from Indianapolis and from Kentucky, from Michigan who come to the shop for specific yarns or, because I've been kind to them online. I think every person who ever comments on anything on Instagram, I write back. That's important to me because people want to feel heard and feel like they're appreciated. And I do appreciate all of them. I might not be in the moment that I do it, but that's what I spend a lot of my weekend doing. Just hearting or reply or saying 'thanks for your feedback' or saying 'yes girl, that sweater looks amazing, can't wait to see you finish it'. That's kind of my closest circle and then my further out circle would be the people who own 'making' businesses. Both in the area and without. I think I have a really good relationship with Silk Road Textiles here in town. They were supporting me before I even got involved with Fibergé and reached out saying, 'you know, I heard that you might be the person who wants to buy it. Let's talk. How can I help you?' So that would be my second row or second ring out circle. And then my third ring out circle is the communities that exist online where I meet people. My Ravelry friends, my Instagram friends, my Etsy friends. I say 'friends', but I might not have ever met these people in real life before. I support them and they support me with likes and comments and with checking in and with sharing thoughts, 'what are we going to do during this hunkered down period?' My community is kind of those three tiers of connections. I think it's driven primarily by geography in the first ring and connection to the store. But beyond that, the connection to other makers or other owners and then the community at large.
Do you think that you would ever see yourself settling up somewhere else? Maybe moving and finding your own community in a different place?
I will say that I do miss living in Chicago. That's where I spent most of my undergrad time and then post undergrad and then I came back there after I finished at PBS. I miss that place just for the vibrancy and for the forced diversity that we had to experience during the daytime. Here in Cincinnati, I never realized how ridiculous the city is. I love it, but no place else would you ever meet a grown up person who says, 'Oh, Hey, where did you go to high school?' Like that's the first thing we want to ask. I miss Chicago for that reason. We all had to be on the bus together. We have forced diversity downtown because we're all working in one mile square area for the financial district where I worked. I miss that and I think about it. I don't think that there's a need for the kind of work that I want to do there. I think here, there's really a need to figure out connection and what connection looks like.
I LOVE THAT ON ANY GIVEN SUNDAY, I CAN LOOK AROUND MY TABLE AND THERE'S TWO 70 YEAR OLD WHITE LADIES, AND A 23 YEAR OLD HISPANIC AMERICAN WOMAN WHO'S GOING TO THE ARMY WHO NEEDS TO LEARN HOW TO SEW THE PATCHES ON HER JACKET, THERE'S TWO 12 YEAR OLD BLACK KIDS WHO JUST WANT TO LEARN HOW TO FINGER KNIT. I LIKE THAT IT'S CLEAR THAT THERE'S A NEED HERE. I KIND OF WANT TO BE HERE WHERE I FEEL GOOD ABOUT MY WORK EVERY DAY.
For me personally, I do just miss Chicago. Oh my God, the Indian food alone. Here is great. There's many wonderful things about Cincinnati. The cost of living is manageable and it's wonderful. But I just miss the fact that you really couldn't choose to isolate yourself from people who are different from you in Chicago because you have to bump up against them every day. And so I miss that part of it.
Do you think that Cincinnati just presents less diversity or maybe it's a little bit more segregated than Chicago?
No, I think Chicago was 100% segregated all day long. Between 5:00 PM and 8:00 AM: segregation. But between 8 and 5 we all got to get along. I think that was the thing that I liked about it. Also that, you know, it's still the Midwest in many ways. Just here in Cincinnati, how many times have you been in a meeting where we're all like, 'we love you, everything is great'. And then you'll leave and you get the emails about how shitty the meeting was and how angry people are. There's that same Midwest goal to please or be in conversation with people and be kind when you're face to face there. But it's still a big city. In Chicago it's more likely than it is here that in the moment people would say 'I love you so much, your sweater is beautiful, but also you're a dummy'. I have to wait a day before I know how a meeting went here because people are like, 'Oh yeah, that sounds great. Thank you for all your hard work. This looks wonderful'. And then two days later I get an email that says, 'you know, I took your document and I redid it the way I really want it because it was all wrong'. What am I going to do? There's no such thing as a cage match at work. I'm not going to fight you. I think people are too afraid to stand up in meetings and say, 'here's what I have to say. This is why I think it's wrong. Please tell me why it's wrong so that I can get the feedback I need'.
Yeah. I think there can be a more Southern Midwestern politeness. We're told that that's the way things are supposed to be for some reason.
THE ONE LESSON MY DAD ALWAYS TAUGHT ME, WHICH I REALLY APPRECIATE, IS THAT YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE WRONG FOR ME TO BE RIGHT AND I DON'T HAVE TO BE WRONG FOR YOU TO BE RIGHT. WE CAN JUST DISAGREE AND COME TO WHATEVER THE SOLUTION IS. AND IT'S OKAY. IT DOESN'T MATTER. YOU'RE NOT BETTER THAN ME BECAUSE YOUR IDEA WAS GOOD AND MINE WASN'T. WE JUST HAD DIFFERENT APPROACHES.
That, to me, is kind of how I live my life, but it's not how we live our lives here. When I was growing up here it was a way different time anyway. But after grad school I left PBS, I worked in New York for a time and while I was there, my mother and my sister and nominated me to be on What Not To Wear cause I was a hot mess. I had a day job at Edelman PR and a side job owning a store called Uptown Hound where we did dog training, dog walking, kenneling, and we had a retail space. I live in Harlem and that was before Harlem was keen for folks to come and gentrify. So it was kind of a gritty neighborhood. I had my dog Lewis at the time and I wanted to be able to not have to get in a cab to go to get his food. We had a great store there. And I remember being on the show and having them say like, 'Oh, we have to throw this out. We have to throw that out, what do you want to get rid of?' And I said, 'I don't care. Get rid of everything, it's fine. Because none of this defines me'. I'm just trying to live my life and make everybody else happy and have a good place for dogs to have access to food that people on the Upper West Side have. And I love that. I've told people who I've worked with sporadically that I was on it, because people would ask me, 'was that you?' It was so funny. It's such a humorous show. I had a great time. I think that they were not happy with me because I didn't have a crying breakdown moment. But what I loved about it is every night when they said, 'do your video', I would be working on a pair of socks. The same pair of socks for the whole five days that I gave to one of the crew members when I was finished. Because there's a lot of downtime and I'd just be sitting while they were moving cables or whatever and I'd be like, 'I'll help you'. And they're like, 'you're not union. Sit down'. When it was over and it appeared on the television station and people who I knew saw it, there's a girl who I knew from high school- I was friends with her sister who was older, who was my age. She found my number and called me and said, 'you know, I just want to thank you because I saw your show. And it just reminded me about how to be in the world. You saved my life when I was in high school'. I didn't realize this. She had super, super thick glasses and ridiculous braces and her teeth were all bananas. She had looked like Tina from Bob's Burgers. I never, never even saw that. I thought she was hilarious. Everything she said was so funny. I was just friends with her because I'm like, 'I don't care if you're an eighth grade and I'm a senior, you're hilarious. Let's hang out'. That's the kind of thing that I wish wouldn't be weird that that happened. It should be like you find the person, you find your tribe, you all love each other or you all support each other or you all have something that connects you and it shouldn't be that somebody is surprised that you like them or that you want to be around them. That's my goal in life. Everybody should know that in how they live. Everybody except for Donald Trump. Let me clear- that bastard should just burned in a dumpster fire. But I just think we spend all this time kind of putting people in boxes and groups. You're this kind of kid. You're that kind of kid. You're this kind of maker. You're that kind of maker. If you just live your life and are not making people upset and you have something funny to say, I'm here for it. All day.
That sounds like a lesson that you've spent some time honing in on. That's awesome.
Yeah. It changed my life when she called me and said that. She was like, 'do you remember me?' And I'm like, 'of course I remember you. You played the oboe. You were always the girl who in orchestra practice the teacher would say, 'Hey Andrea, I played the A we can tune each other''. The other thing is we were in orchestra. I was a cool kid but I also played the cello. It doesn't happen anymore and it makes me sad. Oh my God, I should send you a check for $75 cause this is like therapy.
I'm glad that you're enjoying it. I hate to call up all these people for my project and ask for their time, but I feel like every single time I have a conversation with someone for this project, it kind of ends up in this place where we're no longer talking about their business or their volunteering. We're talking about these types of things.
It's shitty for you because I feel like this is a whole nother project that you could do, but also good that this is happening. I hope you're getting stuff that you can use. If you need me to be more specific about the making stuff, ask me. I'll try to stay on topic.
No, this is perfect. I think a huge part of my project is just acknowledging the history of the way that people make things. Which, as you know, it's a bunch of people who might have a lot of differences, but they get in a room and they're learning this skill or they're just kicking back and hanging out and exactly like you and I are doing now, you end up talking to each other really honestly, you end up sharing vulnerabilities. You end up imparting hard-earned wisdom onto each other just through this venue of making. And that is a huge part of my project as well.
I wish we could be open so I can invite you to Sunday Open Making because I hate to go. Cause it's Sunday and I just want some French toast bitches. But when I get there we always have snacks. We always have wine. We always have coffee and tea. The things that happen around the table- there's a woman who comes whose grandson is my best friend on Twitch now. For some reason. You know what I mean? Why am I even on Twitch? He was like, 'you should do this and we can be friends'. I'm like, 'okay, I'm ready. Let's do it'. He's seven years old. I wouldn't ever have a reason to talk to Henry, but I do and I won't stop because I think about this as my legacy. To be this kind of conduit, but also connecting myself, for my own personal fulfillment, to these people. There's a woman who comes, Lynn, who is probably my best friend at the store. She's so annoying and is always bossing me. But she shows up for me in ways that I don't even understand why. Every time there's a holiday, all the Christmas decorations in the window, she got from her attic and gave to me. She happened to be walking by yesterday. I ordered from the Girl Scouts because they were having trouble selling their cookies. Not because I'm a great person. Those Lemon-Ups are the bomb. I'll take all of them. I ordered like 20 boxes from them. She's like, 'Oh this guy is here. I'll just pay him. You can pay me back'. Beautiful. So she has those in her car. Wonderful. She is bossy and terrible but also wonderful. She met a student that she now tutors who was coming in to learn how to knit.