Fox and Geese
The Fox and Geese pattern is said to represent the standoffs that took place during the Civil War- the era in which this block rose to prominence. There exist many variations on this pattern, as well as different names for it. But this variation represents steadfastness and hope.
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Erin Hill
Jewish Convert
I got to know Erin while she was going through the process of converting to Judaism. She is an incredibly thoughtful and hard-working person who uses her time to make the world a better place in any way she can. For our interview, she told me about her journey towards Judaism, and her connections to her community.
All right. We're going to get started recording. If you could just tell me your name, your pronouns, and why you think you were asked to participate in this project.
My name is Erin Hill. My pronouns are she/her/hers. And I think I was asked to participate in this project because I have converted to Judaism and I have that perspective of going through the conversion process as a Reform Jew while also being present in the Orthodox Jewish world.
Yeah. I got to see a little bit of your journey in that and it was a big part of your life and I think it's really interesting to learn about that. Will you tell us a little bit about the religious tradition in which you were raised?
Absolutely. I was raised as a Nazarene in a very small conservative town. I remember not being able to wear certain pieces of jewelry, not being able to wear pants in church. There was a huge focus on prayer and needing to be this image of a perfect follower of Jesus and God. And there was just a lot of stress associated with that as a child and I didn't really care for it that much. I remember feeling very like, 'why isn't like Jesus talking to me' when my peers in Sunday School were saying that they could feel the presence of God and being saved and everything like that. It's just a very weird experience.
Did you ever feel a strong connection to that tradition?
Never. At all. I always felt very distanced. Then I learned about other religious traditions at a young age and one of them was Judaism, which has always kind of struck home with me. I was totally into studying. I learned about the Jews and then I started studying the Holocaust very thoroughly and writing a bunch of research papers on it or competitions. And then I started learning about Judaism as a religion itself, even more through high school.
When did you start to think that it might be something you would want to be more involved in than just research and studying?
I think it really dawned on me in high school. I just was afraid to voice it just because I stopped going to church in middle school because I didn't agree with being there and it felt like a very toxic environment. Just the way people treated me as being from a single mother household. Being called a bastard to my face it became unbearable to be in that space. But throughout high school I would still have to go to certain occasions, like they held a graduation ceremony for all the kids who had been baptized in that church and my grandparents wanted me to go to save face. So I went.
WHEN PEOPLE WOULD ASK ME WHAT I WANTED TO DO, I TOLD THEM I WANTED TO STUDY JUDAISM AND THE WAY THEY REACTED MADE ME AFRAID TO PURSUE CONVERSION SERIOUSLY BEFORE COLLEGE. GROWING UP WHERE I GREW UP, THERE WAS REALLY NO WAY TO PURSUE IT JUST BECAUSE THERE AREN'T REALLY ANY JEWS IN MARIETTA OR THE SURROUNDING AREA, WHICH WAS A HUGE BUMMER AND SETBACK. BUT DEFINITELY WHEN I GOT TO COLLEGE I WAS JUST LIKE, 'I CAN DO IT NOW, IT'S OBTAINABLE'. BUT THERE WAS STILL THE THE BLOCK OF FAMILY AND THE BLOCK OF THE COMMUNITY I CAME FROM SO IT TOOK ME A HOT MINUTE TO GET THERE.
What part of Judaism specifically spoke to you?
I would say like the continuous journey of learning and building your own personal relationship with God. Within Judaism there are facets of Judaism where people don't believe in God or some people believe in God and how you build that relationship is totally up to you and how you bring about light to this world and how you go about healing this world. That's what's important. That's your relationship with the religion, that's your relationship with God and the pursuit of knowledge and continuing to thirst for that knowledge to learn more about the tradition. It's just so encouraging to be a part of a group that encourages people to discuss with one another and to argue positively and sometimes not so positively with one another about what the texts say and what that means for them. It's this thirst for knowledge and the thirst to make the world a better place through your interactions with people and your relationship with God or your non-relationship with God.
HOW DO YOU PURSUE THAT EVERY DAY?
I THINK IT'S BEING MINDFUL OF THE LITTLE THINGS LIKE YOUR INTERACTIONS WITH PEOPLE, HOW YOU SPEAK TO THEM, HOW YOU TREAT THEM. BEING MINDFUL OF THE FACT THAT THEY HAVE THEIR OWN STRUGGLES, THEY HAVE THEIR OWN PRACTICES, THEIR OWN VIEWS AND JUST BEING LIKE 'HOW CAN I TREAT THIS PERSON IN A WAY THAT BRINGS LIGHT INTO THIS WORLD AND HOW CAN I HELP THIS PERSON' OR LOOKING AT IT MORE ABSTRACT IF SOMETHING BAD HAPPENS. OR YOU LOOK AT IT AND SAY 'WHY DID GOD DO THIS? WHAT LESSON SHOULD I PULL FROM THIS?' AND IT'S FINDING POSITIVES EVEN IN THE NEGATIVES. I'VE NOTICED IN THIS JOURNEY I HAVE BUILT THIS RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD AND I ASK MYSELF THOSE QUESTIONS. 'WHY AM I INTERACTING WITH THIS PERSON IN THIS WAY? WHAT CAN I LEARN FROM THIS AND WHAT CAN I DO TO HELP THIS PERSON GET FROM POINT A TO POINT B OR BE KIND TO THEM?'.
So it is in some ways an external facing experience.
Yes.
What interaction do you have with your own Jewish community? Will you tell us about that?
Yeah, so I work within the broader Jewish community. I go to Temple Sholom, Rabbi Miriam Terlinchamp is my rabbi. But I also bounce in and out of Adath which is a conservative shul. I've worked in the Orthodox community, I worked for a collection and archive that dealt mostly with Orthodox organizations. And then I work at a frum Jewish school within the Orthodox community. So I'm extremely involved with a small pocket of the Orthodox community, which is really fun and it's great to be a part of a community that's super traditional and seeing that side of Judaism that I never really got to experience in my college days or even when I was coming into the reform or conservative community. So that's really cool.
Yeah, that is really cool. Do you think you want to always work in jobs like this?
Yes, absolutely.
WORKING FOR THE JEWISH COMMUNITY IS IN AND OF ITSELF ONE OF MY MAIN GOALS IN LIFE. SOMETIMES YOU TELL PEOPLE LIKE, 'I WANT TO WORK IN THE JEWISH COMMUNITY' WHEN THEY ASK YOU WHAT YOU WANT TO DO AND THEY'RE JUST LIKE, 'BUT WHAT DO YOU WANT TO DO?' BUT REALLY, THAT'S IT.
The Jewish community is vast, but it feels like it's small and everyone knows each other and everyone's there to support you. They know your work ethic, you know their work ethic. The support and the positive energy that you feel from working in that community is such an uplifting experience.
That's awesome. Do you think that any things are different for you because you have converted to it so recently?
Yes. Especially in the situation I'm currently in, just because some Jews don't believe that reform or conservative converts are religiously Jewish by Jewish law. So my conversion isn't really talked about within my work setting just because people would then be like, 'Oh, you're not Jewish'. And I feel like that would shift the way that people treat me.
ONLY A FEW PEOPLE KNOW THAT I AM A CONVERT IN THAT SITUATION. JUST COMING FROM IT FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF FEELING LIKE YOU'RE ALWAYS TRYING TO PROVE YOURSELF, THAT YOU DESERVE TO BE HERE. I KNOW THAT I HAVE PUT IN THE EFFORT, THE TIME, I'VE GROWN AND I'VE GONE THROUGH THE HALAKHIC PROCESS TO BECOME A JEW. SO I KNOW THAT I BELONG HERE AND IT'S WHO I AM, WHO I WAS MEANT TO BE. THERE'S ALWAYS THAT LEVEL OF IMPOSTER SYNDROME THAT'S ALWAYS THERE. AND SOMETIMES IT FEELS LIKE IT MIGHT BE THERE BECAUSE THE COMMUNITY I CONVERTED WITH AND THE COMMUNITY THAT I WORK IN HAVE VERY DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES OF IF I'M A JEW.
Will you talk about your leather cuff and why you wear it?
Oh yes. So I have a leather cuff that I wear on my wrist because I have a tattoo. Within more traditional Jewish communities, you don't get tattoos or piercings beyond your ears. In some more traditional communities you don't get piercings at all just because it's believe that this body is on loan to you and some day we will all be risen and walk to Jerusalem. But I wear my cuff because I can't show my tattoo at work cause I work in a traditional setting. I had to buy this nice leather cuff twice because it didn't fit my wrist the first time. Great time.
Yeah, for sure. What other differences would you say that you're particularly aware of opinion wise? Like I would assume that that you don't believe that your tattoo somehow sullies your body.
No, I definitely don't believe that my tattoo sullies my body. We also have to dress modestly. More strictly modest than some portions of the traditional community. So always flat shoes. Skirts below the knees, always pantyhose or tights. Elbows covered, collarbones covered. Obviously I don't dress this way outside of work. I still respect dressing modest in that situation because I chose to work there.
I'M NOT THE MOST KOSHER JEW. I UNDERSTAND THE IDEALS BEHIND KEEPING KASHRUT, BUT I PERSONALLY DON'T THINK THAT IT FULFILLS ANY SPECIFIC THING IN MY RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD. I'M STILL MINDFUL OF WHAT I EAT. I'M MINDFUL OF WHERE IT CAME FROM. I THINK THAT'S THE MOST IMPORTANT PART TO ME TO KASHRUT. KNOWING THAT MY FOOD IS FAIR TRADE OR MY COFFEE BEANS COME FROM SOMETHING THAT'S BEEN APPROVED, BEING MINDFUL OF THE THINGS THAT I CONSUME IN THE SENSE OF, 'HOW ARE THESE BEING HARVESTED? HOW ARE THESE THINGS BEING TREATED? IS IT HURTING THE WORLD? IS IT HURTING PEOPLE?' SO I'M MINDFUL IN THAT ASPECT, BUT I DO STILL OCCASIONALLY SNACK ON SOME BACON.
How has this change in your life affected your relationship with your family?
My mom and my brothers have been super supportive. My grandparents are supportive too, although I think that my grandma occasionally forgets that I've converted, which is fine, like totally understandable. But some of my aunts and uncles do not approve of this shift in my lifestyle just because they view it as me rejecting Jesus as a Messiah, which I do reject that notion, which is very uncomfortable for them. They're very, very Christian in their beliefs. And to them it's like I've committed the ultimate sin. I have totally cast that out as an idea, cast that out as a belief and willingly chose to walk away from Christianity into something different. There's a lot of tension there. I have some older family members who I thought wouldn't have taken it well but actually were super supportive when my mom told them. They were just like, 'Oh, she can do whatever the heck she wants, the rest of the family can screw off'. Which was really cool to hear. The relationship with my aunts and uncles and cousins feels a little weird and strange just because of where their beliefs lie.
What is it like having a non-Jewish partner?
It's weird. Not bad weird. But it's weird to be in a situation where you're so into this thing, you've converted, you're living this Jewish life and you have one part of you that's not Jewish. But when I say weird, it's mostly like you're trying to teach someone else along the way. I tell him why I find meaning in the things that I do for my religion. I'm having to take a second to explain, 'Oh, this is why Shabbats is meaningful to me. This is why the Passover Seder is important. This is why the high holidays are important'. Which is a cool experience because it allows me to take a step back and remember why I do everything that I do and it's not just me going through the motions. It's me being mindful and being like, 'okay, I need to bring someone else along with me who isn't as passionate about this and who's just here to support me'. And like fun but sometimes it's weird cause you forget that you're with someone who doesn't have that knowledge.
Does it bother you to have to explain all this shit to Sean and me sometimes?
No, I love it. I honestly am so afraid that I'm annoying everyone around me when I'm just like, 'I will tell you about Judaism and fun Jew things'.
Does your partnership ever affect the way that you exist in Jewish spaces?
It depends on the space. In the spaces I usually frequent no.
IN MORE TRADITIONAL SPACES I HAVE TO BE MINDFUL OF THE FACT THAT PEOPLE WOULD NOT AGREE WITH THE FACT THAT I HAVE A NON JEWISH PARTNER. PEOPLE KNOW THAT I HAVE A PARTNER BUT I'VE NEVER EXPLICITLY SAID THAT HE'S A NON JEW. IN THE MORE TRADITIONAL SPACES THAT I WORK IN, PEOPLE KNOW THAT I HAVE A PARTNER AND ONLY A FEW PEOPLE KNOW THAT HE'S A NON JEW. I DON'T BLATANTLY LIE ABOUT IT. IF SOMEONE ASKS ME, I WOULD OBVIOUSLY TELL THEM, BUT I KNOW THAT I'M CLOSE ENOUGH WITH A LOT OF THE PEOPLE THAT I WORK WITH IF IT WERE TO COME UP IN A CASUAL CONVERSATION, I WOULD PROBABLY GET A LITTLE BIT OF FLACK.
People would be like 'Oh, like why are you with a non Jew? There are plenty of other Jews I can set you up with'. And I've definitely been in the experience where someone in the community has tried to set me up with a nice Jewish boy when I'm already in a relationship with a non Jewish boy.
I THINK IT IS GROUNDED IN MY FAITH, MY RELIGION. WHICH I'VE HAD A HARD TIME RECONCILING BECAUSE I'VE NEVER DEFINED MYSELF AS A RELIGIOUS PERSON. I WAS SO AGAINST DEFINING MYSELF AS A RELIGIOUS PERSON FOR SO MANY YEARS OF MY LIFE JUST BECAUSE OF HOW MY RELATIONSHIP WITH CHRISTIANITY DEFINED RELIGION FOR ME. AS I'VE GROWN AS A PERSON WITHIN JUDAISM, I FIND MYSELF BEING LIKE, 'I THINK LIKE THIS IS ME BEING RELIGIOUS IN A WAY'. I'M DOING ALL THESE THINGS WHERE I'M MORE MINDFUL OF THE WORLD AROUND ME IN MY INTERACTIONS WITH PEOPLE BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT'S ROOTED IN MY FAITH BELIEF.
Yeah. Another part of your job besides just being in the Jewish community is that you work with kids. Will you talk about that a little?
I love it. It's a great time. I'm a business manager for a school, which means that my job title is anything and everything. I deal with the financial side of schools, but I get to deal with kids. Occasionally I get to hang out at recess and help out and it's just so fun to be around children in the community and seeing them engage with learning. Not only Judaic studies but general studies and their wealth of knowledge that they have and just how mature they are. Even the age of three and four. It's truly incredible. But it is a trying time to be in education right now.
T he coronavirus educational existence I'm sure is not an easy breeze.
Never.
So this is definitely a big part of Erin as a person. But do you want to talk about another part of your life that's important to you?
I'm really passionate about preservation of historical items, which probably stems from the fact that I've worked within a Jewish collection. But just in general preservation and conservation are so important and that's something that I continue to do on the side. Recently we worked on acquiring the sign from that old church downtown that's being demolished by FC Cincinnati. Just being involved in that process to preserve that history is just so fun and it's great to know that you're taking the time to do something so that history will be preserved in object form for future generations. I think that's really cool.
That is really cool. Why do you like history so much?
History has always been so fascinating to me. Just reading about the past and learning about different cultures and different people and how that's evolved over time was always something that I've been drawn to and I can't explain it. I think it stemmed from my grandpa who used to serve in the US Air Force and he lived in a lot of different countries and he would talk to me about their different cultures. But he wouldn't just talk about them in the present tense at that time. He would teach me about the history of those cultures and it was just so cool to see the link from point A to point B and how that culture grew and how my grandpa immersed himself in it and how much he loved it. Reading about history just immerses you into cultures at different points in time. And I think that's so cool.
That's stuff is so interesting. I love that. That's a nice memory. One question that I'm asking everyone in these interviews is if you had to, what would you solidly define your community as? Is it a group of people who live in the same area? Is it maybe a particular sect of the Jewish community? Is it a particular geographic location of this community that you exist in? What would you say it is that ties your community together?
I THINK THE JEWISH COMMUNITY, IT'S NOT JUST TIED TO MY GEOGRAPHIC COMMUNITY. IT'S FASCINATING. IT'S SO HARD TO DEFINE THE JEWISH COMMUNITY BECAUSE IT'S SO VAST. EVEN IN THAT VASTNESS, IT'S SO EASY FOR US TO ALL IDENTIFY EACH OTHER AND FIND WAYS TO CONNECT. I THINK IT'S OUR JUDAISM THAT BINDS US REGARDLESS OF HOW TRADITIONAL OR OBSERVANT WE ARE. WE'RE ALL JEWS. WE ALL HAVE THAT CONNECTION TO OUR JUDAISM. IT BRINGS US ALL TOGETHER. EVEN IF WE'VE NEVER MET IN PERSON. EVEN IF YOU FIND A RANDOM INTERNET STRANGER AND YOU'RE JUST LIKE, 'HEY, I'M JEWISH', AND THEY'RE LIKE, 'I'M JEWISH TOO'. AND SUDDENLY YOU'RE BEST FRIENDS. OR PEOPLE WITHIN YOUR IMMEDIATE COMMUNITY. THERE'S AUTOMATICALLY THAT BOND THERE. IT'S JUST FASCINATING. I DON'T KNOW HOW TO DEFINE IT.
My name is Erin Hill. My pronouns are she/her/hers. And I think I was asked to participate in this project because I have converted to Judaism and I have that perspective of going through the conversion process as a Reform Jew while also being present in the Orthodox Jewish world.
Yeah. I got to see a little bit of your journey in that and it was a big part of your life and I think it's really interesting to learn about that. Will you tell us a little bit about the religious tradition in which you were raised?
Absolutely. I was raised as a Nazarene in a very small conservative town. I remember not being able to wear certain pieces of jewelry, not being able to wear pants in church. There was a huge focus on prayer and needing to be this image of a perfect follower of Jesus and God. And there was just a lot of stress associated with that as a child and I didn't really care for it that much. I remember feeling very like, 'why isn't like Jesus talking to me' when my peers in Sunday School were saying that they could feel the presence of God and being saved and everything like that. It's just a very weird experience.
Did you ever feel a strong connection to that tradition?
Never. At all. I always felt very distanced. Then I learned about other religious traditions at a young age and one of them was Judaism, which has always kind of struck home with me. I was totally into studying. I learned about the Jews and then I started studying the Holocaust very thoroughly and writing a bunch of research papers on it or competitions. And then I started learning about Judaism as a religion itself, even more through high school.
When did you start to think that it might be something you would want to be more involved in than just research and studying?
I think it really dawned on me in high school. I just was afraid to voice it just because I stopped going to church in middle school because I didn't agree with being there and it felt like a very toxic environment. Just the way people treated me as being from a single mother household. Being called a bastard to my face it became unbearable to be in that space. But throughout high school I would still have to go to certain occasions, like they held a graduation ceremony for all the kids who had been baptized in that church and my grandparents wanted me to go to save face. So I went.
WHEN PEOPLE WOULD ASK ME WHAT I WANTED TO DO, I TOLD THEM I WANTED TO STUDY JUDAISM AND THE WAY THEY REACTED MADE ME AFRAID TO PURSUE CONVERSION SERIOUSLY BEFORE COLLEGE. GROWING UP WHERE I GREW UP, THERE WAS REALLY NO WAY TO PURSUE IT JUST BECAUSE THERE AREN'T REALLY ANY JEWS IN MARIETTA OR THE SURROUNDING AREA, WHICH WAS A HUGE BUMMER AND SETBACK. BUT DEFINITELY WHEN I GOT TO COLLEGE I WAS JUST LIKE, 'I CAN DO IT NOW, IT'S OBTAINABLE'. BUT THERE WAS STILL THE THE BLOCK OF FAMILY AND THE BLOCK OF THE COMMUNITY I CAME FROM SO IT TOOK ME A HOT MINUTE TO GET THERE.
What part of Judaism specifically spoke to you?
I would say like the continuous journey of learning and building your own personal relationship with God. Within Judaism there are facets of Judaism where people don't believe in God or some people believe in God and how you build that relationship is totally up to you and how you bring about light to this world and how you go about healing this world. That's what's important. That's your relationship with the religion, that's your relationship with God and the pursuit of knowledge and continuing to thirst for that knowledge to learn more about the tradition. It's just so encouraging to be a part of a group that encourages people to discuss with one another and to argue positively and sometimes not so positively with one another about what the texts say and what that means for them. It's this thirst for knowledge and the thirst to make the world a better place through your interactions with people and your relationship with God or your non-relationship with God.
HOW DO YOU PURSUE THAT EVERY DAY?
I THINK IT'S BEING MINDFUL OF THE LITTLE THINGS LIKE YOUR INTERACTIONS WITH PEOPLE, HOW YOU SPEAK TO THEM, HOW YOU TREAT THEM. BEING MINDFUL OF THE FACT THAT THEY HAVE THEIR OWN STRUGGLES, THEY HAVE THEIR OWN PRACTICES, THEIR OWN VIEWS AND JUST BEING LIKE 'HOW CAN I TREAT THIS PERSON IN A WAY THAT BRINGS LIGHT INTO THIS WORLD AND HOW CAN I HELP THIS PERSON' OR LOOKING AT IT MORE ABSTRACT IF SOMETHING BAD HAPPENS. OR YOU LOOK AT IT AND SAY 'WHY DID GOD DO THIS? WHAT LESSON SHOULD I PULL FROM THIS?' AND IT'S FINDING POSITIVES EVEN IN THE NEGATIVES. I'VE NOTICED IN THIS JOURNEY I HAVE BUILT THIS RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD AND I ASK MYSELF THOSE QUESTIONS. 'WHY AM I INTERACTING WITH THIS PERSON IN THIS WAY? WHAT CAN I LEARN FROM THIS AND WHAT CAN I DO TO HELP THIS PERSON GET FROM POINT A TO POINT B OR BE KIND TO THEM?'.
So it is in some ways an external facing experience.
Yes.
What interaction do you have with your own Jewish community? Will you tell us about that?
Yeah, so I work within the broader Jewish community. I go to Temple Sholom, Rabbi Miriam Terlinchamp is my rabbi. But I also bounce in and out of Adath which is a conservative shul. I've worked in the Orthodox community, I worked for a collection and archive that dealt mostly with Orthodox organizations. And then I work at a frum Jewish school within the Orthodox community. So I'm extremely involved with a small pocket of the Orthodox community, which is really fun and it's great to be a part of a community that's super traditional and seeing that side of Judaism that I never really got to experience in my college days or even when I was coming into the reform or conservative community. So that's really cool.
Yeah, that is really cool. Do you think you want to always work in jobs like this?
Yes, absolutely.
WORKING FOR THE JEWISH COMMUNITY IS IN AND OF ITSELF ONE OF MY MAIN GOALS IN LIFE. SOMETIMES YOU TELL PEOPLE LIKE, 'I WANT TO WORK IN THE JEWISH COMMUNITY' WHEN THEY ASK YOU WHAT YOU WANT TO DO AND THEY'RE JUST LIKE, 'BUT WHAT DO YOU WANT TO DO?' BUT REALLY, THAT'S IT.
The Jewish community is vast, but it feels like it's small and everyone knows each other and everyone's there to support you. They know your work ethic, you know their work ethic. The support and the positive energy that you feel from working in that community is such an uplifting experience.
That's awesome. Do you think that any things are different for you because you have converted to it so recently?
Yes. Especially in the situation I'm currently in, just because some Jews don't believe that reform or conservative converts are religiously Jewish by Jewish law. So my conversion isn't really talked about within my work setting just because people would then be like, 'Oh, you're not Jewish'. And I feel like that would shift the way that people treat me.
ONLY A FEW PEOPLE KNOW THAT I AM A CONVERT IN THAT SITUATION. JUST COMING FROM IT FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF FEELING LIKE YOU'RE ALWAYS TRYING TO PROVE YOURSELF, THAT YOU DESERVE TO BE HERE. I KNOW THAT I HAVE PUT IN THE EFFORT, THE TIME, I'VE GROWN AND I'VE GONE THROUGH THE HALAKHIC PROCESS TO BECOME A JEW. SO I KNOW THAT I BELONG HERE AND IT'S WHO I AM, WHO I WAS MEANT TO BE. THERE'S ALWAYS THAT LEVEL OF IMPOSTER SYNDROME THAT'S ALWAYS THERE. AND SOMETIMES IT FEELS LIKE IT MIGHT BE THERE BECAUSE THE COMMUNITY I CONVERTED WITH AND THE COMMUNITY THAT I WORK IN HAVE VERY DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES OF IF I'M A JEW.
Will you talk about your leather cuff and why you wear it?
Oh yes. So I have a leather cuff that I wear on my wrist because I have a tattoo. Within more traditional Jewish communities, you don't get tattoos or piercings beyond your ears. In some more traditional communities you don't get piercings at all just because it's believe that this body is on loan to you and some day we will all be risen and walk to Jerusalem. But I wear my cuff because I can't show my tattoo at work cause I work in a traditional setting. I had to buy this nice leather cuff twice because it didn't fit my wrist the first time. Great time.
Yeah, for sure. What other differences would you say that you're particularly aware of opinion wise? Like I would assume that that you don't believe that your tattoo somehow sullies your body.
No, I definitely don't believe that my tattoo sullies my body. We also have to dress modestly. More strictly modest than some portions of the traditional community. So always flat shoes. Skirts below the knees, always pantyhose or tights. Elbows covered, collarbones covered. Obviously I don't dress this way outside of work. I still respect dressing modest in that situation because I chose to work there.
I'M NOT THE MOST KOSHER JEW. I UNDERSTAND THE IDEALS BEHIND KEEPING KASHRUT, BUT I PERSONALLY DON'T THINK THAT IT FULFILLS ANY SPECIFIC THING IN MY RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD. I'M STILL MINDFUL OF WHAT I EAT. I'M MINDFUL OF WHERE IT CAME FROM. I THINK THAT'S THE MOST IMPORTANT PART TO ME TO KASHRUT. KNOWING THAT MY FOOD IS FAIR TRADE OR MY COFFEE BEANS COME FROM SOMETHING THAT'S BEEN APPROVED, BEING MINDFUL OF THE THINGS THAT I CONSUME IN THE SENSE OF, 'HOW ARE THESE BEING HARVESTED? HOW ARE THESE THINGS BEING TREATED? IS IT HURTING THE WORLD? IS IT HURTING PEOPLE?' SO I'M MINDFUL IN THAT ASPECT, BUT I DO STILL OCCASIONALLY SNACK ON SOME BACON.
How has this change in your life affected your relationship with your family?
My mom and my brothers have been super supportive. My grandparents are supportive too, although I think that my grandma occasionally forgets that I've converted, which is fine, like totally understandable. But some of my aunts and uncles do not approve of this shift in my lifestyle just because they view it as me rejecting Jesus as a Messiah, which I do reject that notion, which is very uncomfortable for them. They're very, very Christian in their beliefs. And to them it's like I've committed the ultimate sin. I have totally cast that out as an idea, cast that out as a belief and willingly chose to walk away from Christianity into something different. There's a lot of tension there. I have some older family members who I thought wouldn't have taken it well but actually were super supportive when my mom told them. They were just like, 'Oh, she can do whatever the heck she wants, the rest of the family can screw off'. Which was really cool to hear. The relationship with my aunts and uncles and cousins feels a little weird and strange just because of where their beliefs lie.
What is it like having a non-Jewish partner?
It's weird. Not bad weird. But it's weird to be in a situation where you're so into this thing, you've converted, you're living this Jewish life and you have one part of you that's not Jewish. But when I say weird, it's mostly like you're trying to teach someone else along the way. I tell him why I find meaning in the things that I do for my religion. I'm having to take a second to explain, 'Oh, this is why Shabbats is meaningful to me. This is why the Passover Seder is important. This is why the high holidays are important'. Which is a cool experience because it allows me to take a step back and remember why I do everything that I do and it's not just me going through the motions. It's me being mindful and being like, 'okay, I need to bring someone else along with me who isn't as passionate about this and who's just here to support me'. And like fun but sometimes it's weird cause you forget that you're with someone who doesn't have that knowledge.
Does it bother you to have to explain all this shit to Sean and me sometimes?
No, I love it. I honestly am so afraid that I'm annoying everyone around me when I'm just like, 'I will tell you about Judaism and fun Jew things'.
Does your partnership ever affect the way that you exist in Jewish spaces?
It depends on the space. In the spaces I usually frequent no.
IN MORE TRADITIONAL SPACES I HAVE TO BE MINDFUL OF THE FACT THAT PEOPLE WOULD NOT AGREE WITH THE FACT THAT I HAVE A NON JEWISH PARTNER. PEOPLE KNOW THAT I HAVE A PARTNER BUT I'VE NEVER EXPLICITLY SAID THAT HE'S A NON JEW. IN THE MORE TRADITIONAL SPACES THAT I WORK IN, PEOPLE KNOW THAT I HAVE A PARTNER AND ONLY A FEW PEOPLE KNOW THAT HE'S A NON JEW. I DON'T BLATANTLY LIE ABOUT IT. IF SOMEONE ASKS ME, I WOULD OBVIOUSLY TELL THEM, BUT I KNOW THAT I'M CLOSE ENOUGH WITH A LOT OF THE PEOPLE THAT I WORK WITH IF IT WERE TO COME UP IN A CASUAL CONVERSATION, I WOULD PROBABLY GET A LITTLE BIT OF FLACK.
People would be like 'Oh, like why are you with a non Jew? There are plenty of other Jews I can set you up with'. And I've definitely been in the experience where someone in the community has tried to set me up with a nice Jewish boy when I'm already in a relationship with a non Jewish boy.
DO YOU THINK THAT MOST OF YOUR WORLDVIEW CAN TIE BACK TO THIS ALLIANCE WITH RELIGION? I THINK YOU'RE A REALLY THOUGHTFUL PERSON AND A CONSCIENTIOUS PERSON. YOU THINK ABOUT THE WAY YOU INTERACT WITH THE WORLD AND WITH OTHER PEOPLE. WHERE IS THAT GROUNDED?
I THINK IT IS GROUNDED IN MY FAITH, MY RELIGION. WHICH I'VE HAD A HARD TIME RECONCILING BECAUSE I'VE NEVER DEFINED MYSELF AS A RELIGIOUS PERSON. I WAS SO AGAINST DEFINING MYSELF AS A RELIGIOUS PERSON FOR SO MANY YEARS OF MY LIFE JUST BECAUSE OF HOW MY RELATIONSHIP WITH CHRISTIANITY DEFINED RELIGION FOR ME. AS I'VE GROWN AS A PERSON WITHIN JUDAISM, I FIND MYSELF BEING LIKE, 'I THINK LIKE THIS IS ME BEING RELIGIOUS IN A WAY'. I'M DOING ALL THESE THINGS WHERE I'M MORE MINDFUL OF THE WORLD AROUND ME IN MY INTERACTIONS WITH PEOPLE BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT'S ROOTED IN MY FAITH BELIEF.
Yeah. Another part of your job besides just being in the Jewish community is that you work with kids. Will you talk about that a little?
I love it. It's a great time. I'm a business manager for a school, which means that my job title is anything and everything. I deal with the financial side of schools, but I get to deal with kids. Occasionally I get to hang out at recess and help out and it's just so fun to be around children in the community and seeing them engage with learning. Not only Judaic studies but general studies and their wealth of knowledge that they have and just how mature they are. Even the age of three and four. It's truly incredible. But it is a trying time to be in education right now.
T he coronavirus educational existence I'm sure is not an easy breeze.
Never.
So this is definitely a big part of Erin as a person. But do you want to talk about another part of your life that's important to you?
I'm really passionate about preservation of historical items, which probably stems from the fact that I've worked within a Jewish collection. But just in general preservation and conservation are so important and that's something that I continue to do on the side. Recently we worked on acquiring the sign from that old church downtown that's being demolished by FC Cincinnati. Just being involved in that process to preserve that history is just so fun and it's great to know that you're taking the time to do something so that history will be preserved in object form for future generations. I think that's really cool.
That is really cool. Why do you like history so much?
History has always been so fascinating to me. Just reading about the past and learning about different cultures and different people and how that's evolved over time was always something that I've been drawn to and I can't explain it. I think it stemmed from my grandpa who used to serve in the US Air Force and he lived in a lot of different countries and he would talk to me about their different cultures. But he wouldn't just talk about them in the present tense at that time. He would teach me about the history of those cultures and it was just so cool to see the link from point A to point B and how that culture grew and how my grandpa immersed himself in it and how much he loved it. Reading about history just immerses you into cultures at different points in time. And I think that's so cool.
That's stuff is so interesting. I love that. That's a nice memory. One question that I'm asking everyone in these interviews is if you had to, what would you solidly define your community as? Is it a group of people who live in the same area? Is it maybe a particular sect of the Jewish community? Is it a particular geographic location of this community that you exist in? What would you say it is that ties your community together?