Dutchman’z Puzzle
This quilt block is made of simple half-square-triangles arranged in a unique pattern. This block is full of twirling triangles, giving an impression of movement. The iconographic style of quilt blocks connects strongly to the history of iconic imagery used in American Traditional tattooing.
Kaitlin Staggs
Tattoo Artist
Kaitlin is a tattoo artist in Cincinnati. She lives with her partner Jesse and they have been quarantined together for the COVID-19 pandemic. During our interview we talked about their artistic practices, adapting to making things on quarantine, and how they give back to their community.
G: You guys can start by stating your names, your pronouns, and why you think I asked you to be part of the project.
J: My name is Jesse Ly. I identify with he/him pronouns. I have no clue why you asked us to be a part of this project. I dunno. We make things and do things.
K: I'm Kaitlin Staggs. My pronouns are she/her and I'm assuming I'm included cause I live with him.
G: Yeah. I was asking around for couples or roommates that live together. Since we are in quarantine, I was interested in asking them how that has changed their lives. Adriana Noritz actually referred you to me. She thought that you would be perfect candidates for this. Then I realized like, 'Oh well they're also awesome artists in their own right'. Like I just got your zine and I thought it was fantastic and I checked out your work too Kaitlin. So we're going to talk a little bit about that. We can get started if you both just want to tell us what kind of art you work on.
K: Sure. I'm a tattoo artist and I've been doing that for four or five years. I do American traditional style tattoos and from that I also do painting and a little bit of whatever I decide to learn how to do.
J: I guess technically my medium of choice is photography. I am traditionally trained as a photographer. But going through the processes of an undergraduate art school education, it's definitely developed into a number of different facets. That's including intertwining moments in sculpture installation. Book making and interweaving that with video and print making.
I WOULD SAY MY STUDENT PRACTICE INTENSELY REVOLVES AROUND HOW THE PHOTOGRAPHIC IMAGE IS DISSEMINATED AND HOW THE INFORMATION IS COMPREHENDED AND UNDERSTOOD AND HOW THESE OBJECTS OF REPRESENTATION CREATE THIS LIMINAL SPACE BETWEEN ACTUALITY VERSUS REPRESENTATION. AND KIND OF JUST COPING WITH THAT QUESTION AND THAT EXISTENTIAL UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT IS REAL AND WHAT IS NOT AND WHAT IS REPRESENTATIONS.
G: Awesome. So for both of you, what sort of formal education or training ties into the art that you make?
K: For art in general I've always been somebody who draws and paints and does all that. I grew up poor as shit. So that's what I got for gifts. Paper and pencils and colored pencils and stuff. We both went to a career tech school. He went for his junior and senior year of high school. I went for my senior year. I personally went for graphic design. I genuinely have no idea how to do anything with a computer now. But it was very intense on drawing and everything. From that I spent almost a year in college. I went to Antioch college in Yellow Springs for Fine Art and dropped out and found a tattoo apprenticeship. Then was an apprentice for a little over a year. I graduated that and started tattooing professionally.
G: Where do you tattoo professionally?
K: I tattoo at Handcraft. It's downtown Cincinnati.
J: Like she said, I spent my last few years of high school in this vocational school that was entirely fixated on graphic commercial photography. So I really delved into all of the technical aspects of how to make an image and understanding from a to Z what you can do to be technically proficient. I think transferring from that to DAAP's Fine Art BFA program really formulated more of the conceptual apparatuses and thought processes that I deal with. Mixing both of those experiences has helped me develop into questioning a thing and thinking about how I can make a representation or a visual aspect into it, and also figuring how I can be technically proficient within the images that I am making and within the installation that I'm creating. Just having conversations with other artists or people that I collaborate with or having studio visits with curators. Just taking in as much insight as possible feels like necessary to make projects be the best that they can be.
G: Yeah, definitely. School has offered you some knowledge in the technical proficiency. You talked a little bit earlier about how you actually bring your own ideas to photography. Did you get that through education or was that more just outside inspiration for you?
J: I wouldn't say it's definitely a little bit of both. I probably would not be in this mode of thinking without the interactions that I've had. I'm really lucky to have fallen into a really wonderful photographic program with good professors that are willing to help shape their students into thinking in certain modes or helping them find what they are interested in making. I pull from that and then just find motivation and a drive to further work to the best that I can.
G: You said that you focus on American traditional style. Is that mostly what you both wear or do you wear other things too?
K: What I have tattooed on me? Yeah, I have all traditional pretty much. I have one realism tattoo on the side of my knee. That always gets a bunch of attention and it's my least favorite tattoo. I want to throw lines in it all the time. Then I have some more illustrative linework stuff. But I'd say 99% of my tattoos are traditional.
J: You've done I think 13 out of 14 of my tattoos. So yeah, everything that I have tattooed on me is from her and her style.
G: WHAT SPEAKS TO YOU ABOUT THE AMERICAN TRADITIONAL STYLE?
K: A LOT OF HISTORY. IT'S THE FIRST MAJOR STYLE THAT THERE WAS. OTHER THAN THE ORIGINAL MORE TRIBAL STYLES OUT THERE. IT'S LASTED OVER TIME. IT WAS REALLY POPULAR IN THE 1800'S AND IT'S JUST CONTINUED. I THINK THAT'S REALLY COOL. I ALSO STILL USE A COIL MACHINE, WHICH A LOT OF PEOPLE GIVE ME A LOT OF CRAP FOR BECAUSE IT'S HEAVY AND THEY NEED CONSTANT TUNE UPS AND THEY'RE JUST KIND OF A PAIN IN THE ASS. BUT THEY'RE PRETTY MUCH THE SAME AS THEY WERE IN THE LATE 1800'S. THERE'VE BEEN TWEAKS TO MAKE THEM NOT SO BIG AND BULKY AND STUFF, BUT FOR THE MOST PART THEY'RE THE SAME. I THINK THAT'S REALLY COOL. TRADITIONAL DEFINITELY IS FOLK STORIES. A LOT OF THE DESIGNS ARE BASED ON TALL TALES AND STUFF. I JUST THINK IT'S COOL.
I don't do only that. I definitely do take the style and do nontraditional imagery in that style. But I think that's what really drew me toward it. I originally wanted to be a realism tattooer. My mentor was a realism tattooer. A couple months into the apprenticeship, he realized that I started drawing traditional. My portfolio had always been a realism. Then he was like, 'do you want to be a traditional tattooer now?' And I'm like, 'yeah'. I did maybe three realism tattoos to graduate. Everything else I've done is traditional. So he was pretty pissed about that, but that's alright.
G: So you two have become a couple in the era of COVID-19. Are you both on quarantine at home right now?
K: Yeah, we're both not working.
J: Yeah, we're both currently unemployed. Aside from our a studio in the West End. I still have continually been going there cause I need to finish my thesis work. I'm also trying to actively maintain a studio practice. But aside from going there, I don't think we've left our apartment in.... [grimace]
K: We need groceries. We have no bread and no tortillas. So I'm like, 'ah shit, we have to get food'.
J: I feel like we haven't done anything or we've just been here.
K: I've been doing commissions. I've been painting a lot of commissions to have some sort of income.
I'M STILL CURRENTLY TRYING TO PAY BOOTH RENT WHERE I'M AT. I'M AN INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR ESSENTIALLY. I JUST PAY TO WORK WHERE I WORK. THE GUY THAT OWNS THE SHOP ISN'T A RICH DUDE. HE'S HAVING A SECOND KID, SO HE'S LIKE, 'HEY, IF YOU CAN PAY RENT, PLEASE DO. CAUSE I CAN'T COVER THE WHOLE SHOP'. SO I'M STILL PAYING EVERYTHING I CAN TO HELP HIM OUT. I NEED SOME SORT OF INCOME WHILE I DO THAT. SO I'VE JUST BEEN BUSTING OUT PAINTING COMMISSIONS. I THINK I JUST DID MY LIKE 24TH PAINTING OVER THE PAST.
G: Wow. Damn.
K: Yeah, it's nice though. It's keeping me busy. Other than that it's watching Netflix.
G: I guess your schedule, your day to day flow must have been thrown off a fair amount by this. Do you find it hard to make or easier to make these days?
K: Me personally, I don't really draw or paint at the shop I work at. I do everything other than tattoo at home. Honestly I miss tattooing. But it's kinda just workdays from home still. It's not that different other than not being able to go tattoo cool stuff at the end of the day. It's pretty hard for me.
J: I don't know if you are feeling a similar thing. After getting kicked out of the building, not having access to a lot of things has definitely slowed down the process. But I think it's kind of kicked me into gear with what post-grad is going to be like anyways. I'm not going to have access to any of these things. It's advanced this like two, three weeks. So trying to figure out that hustle of how I get all of this stuff done and get access to things. I've been making a lot of frames lately. It's finding access to equipment for woodworking.
K: So far you have.
J: Yeah. So far I've been able to successfully do everything that I've intended to do. But like, oof. It's definitely not luxurious by any means.
K: A lot of talk about buying some woodworking tools for our studio after all of this.
G: Yeah. How have you been making up for a lack of access to equipment? Do you borrow or find your own stuff?
J: I have definitely been borrowing a lot of equipment from friends and utilizing that. A good friend of ours, he has a miter saw in his basement. He unlocked his basement door and let me into his home so that I could use it while he was upstairs.
K: We talked from six plus feet away.
J: Yeah he yelled down his stairwell to converse with me. That was really weird. But yeah, I have that and I've converted a small home office/ studio space. I've turned that and our one bathroom into a dark room. Which is by no means an ideal set up. But it gets the job done.
G: That's good. Do you two ever make art together?
J: We've tried...
K: He takes a lot of photos of me, if that counts.
J: That's true.
K: I think that I'm more drawing, painting, stuff like that. We're always kind of thinking of different ways we could make work together. But the last time I remember really trying to make a piece- it wasn't anything serious, it was just kind of doing something together- I just had some big piece of paper or something and we were painting on it. This was years ago. You lived at that first house. He was a sophomore in college. We were trying to paint together and I was just like, 'no pressure, let's just paint, whatever'. I'm painting something and I look up and he's so frustrated that he can't paint what he wants to paint. He's like 'I'm not doing this anymore' and wouldn't finish it. So I think that our art styles are different enough that we'd have to do a mashup. It wouldn't really be us both doing the same thing.
J: I think we've tried so many times. I definitely would consider me making photographs of you as a collaboration.
K: Well especially when you let me do what I want.
J: Yeah, we've definitely developed a repertoire with each other.
K: Oh yeah. I understand. I know the angles. It's been seven years. I know.
J: Yes and like structurally making things. I feel like we intensely had a lot of conversations about it.
K: We definitely plan to. I think that once you have more time, that can be something we can actually focus on and just play around with. I'm excited for him to be out of school for a while so that we can spend time at the studio and stuff. I've been working on sculptural work. I'm currently building a guillotine out of an old easel that we found that was left at our studio. It's really big and scary looking. I've been saying I'm going to do it for two years and now I'm like, 'Oh, I have no excuse'. So I took it apart and I'm sanding everything and whatnot, and I'm going to make a guillotine I guess.
J: It's ominous and sick.
G: Yeah, that is sick. Do you know where you're going to show it or is it just for you?
K: Well, it's just for me right now. I've been talking to the guys up at Basket Shop. He supposedly has a show kind of lined up. Obviously we don't know what's gonna happen. But he's reached out to me about doing a collaboration where I show my work like in front of his work or something. I dunno. I'm making it for me cause I wanna make it and if it happens to be showed, that's cool. If not, then we'll just have an ominous guillotine in our studio.
G: THAT'S AWESOME. HOW DO YOU FEEL, JESSE, ABOUT THE END OF YOUR
EDUCATION BEING CUT OFF IN THIS WAY?
J: I'M NOT GONNA LIE. IT DEFINITELY SUCKS. AT THE SAME TIME, I AM TRYING TO COPE WITH THIS. IT'S WEIRD TO THINK ABOUT IT JUST CAUSE THE REASONS FOR EVERYTHING THAT THEY'RE DOING MAKES TOTAL SENSE. I WOULD FEEL KIND OF SELFISH THAT PEOPLE COULD DIE OR PEOPLE COULD SEE SOME THINGS THAT I'VE MADE. DEALING WITH THAT, TRYING TO JUST MENTALLY UNDERSTAND THAT IT'S OKAY THAT I'M UPSET, BUT ALSO THE RATIONALE IS TOTALLY UNDERSTANDABLE.
K: It's definitely okay that you're upset. He is supposed to be graduating this spring and my little sister's graduating high school. So both of them are going to miss out on their graduation.
J: I mean I'm truly excited to see how motivated and what possibilities people find after all of this. Who knows when it will be. A number of other people who we are graduating with, I know have poured their heart and soul and blood into making something that's insane or awesome that they care deeply about. I'm interested in how things are going to manifest after all of this. Post-this I'm so excited.
G: Definitely. I'm glad to hear that you're excited about it. That's awesome.
J: Yeah. I'm just trying to be a bit optimistic. Not knowing when it will be though.
G: Yeah, the uncertainty of it is definitely a little bit extra scary additionally to the whole sickness thing. Do either of you feel that your artistic practices are particularly tied to Cincinnati?
K: No. God no. I'm originally from Dayton, Ohio. I lived there up until two years ago. I've been in Cincinnati since then. I worked in a not awesome shop for a little over two years in Dayton. I had a pretty mentally abusive situation with my mentor and owner of the shop. So in that way I think that Cincinnati has made my practice better. Just because I'm now in a space that I don't have to be scared to be at. There's a mutual respect between the shop owner and myself. So in that way, yes, I think Cincinnati has improved my work. But I don't think it's tied to Cincinnati. I don't know. I love Cincinnati.
J: I'm in a similar vein in that my work is definitely affected by the interactions with the people that I have conversations with and studio visits with or whatever. A large majority of the people that I hold their opinion to be the most value when talking about work are people that I've met either through school or are in the immediate region or area. I think I am tied to those people who have connections here. But in a similar boat I am not originally from here, but being here has definitely developed me into the person and artist that I am now. So I hold that sentimental attachment. But by no means do I feel tied. I don't think I'm giving back or anything. Sometimes I feel like I should. But I don't know how that would be.
K: Ever since I started being able to actually tattoo for money I tried to, a couple of times a year at least, do donations. I'll do a day or a flash sheet or whatever. I've done it differently a handful of times. Then I would donate what I made from that around the time when that really big push against planned Parenthood was happening. When all that stuff started happening I did a flash day and I ended up by myself raising four or five hundred dollars for planned Parenthood. I've been doing stuff recently for the food bank downtown. Cause obviously a lot of people are being hit by everything now. I just raffled off a painting and I donated the money to that. I plan on continually doing that through the crisis.
G: That's awesome. That actually ties into my next question, which is a question that I'm asking everyone involved in this project. I want to ask everybody, what do you consider to tie your community together? Apparently it's not geographic location, but is it a medium that people work in? Is it an ideology that people share? What ties your community together?
K: Um, I don't know. I feel like we have a tight group of friends and none of us do the same thing. It's not a group of artists. That's my community. When I think of community here, it's just a tight group of friends. What ties us together is game night. We play cards and board games. In my head that's my community. I don't feel much community work-wise. I love my job and I appreciate the people I work with. But it's not a community where it's like we're all gonna hang out and make work together and stuff. I go there and I work and then I come home. It's almost nice having a community outside of the art world. We can drink a beer and we can play something. That's what I would consider my community.
J: I FEEL LIKE I'M IN A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT LITTLE POCKETS. WE HAVE THIS IMMEDIATE FRIEND GROUP. I FEEL LIKE THEY'RE THE PEOPLE THAT WE TALK TO REGULARLY AND CONSISTENTLY. WITH MAKING THINGS I HAVE A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT PEOPLE THAT I'VE MET THROUGH THE ACT OF TRYING TO SEE WHAT OTHER PEOPLE ARE MAKING. THERE IS A REALLY LOVELY ONLINE COMMUNITY OF CONTEMPORARY PHOTOGRAPHERS. AS MUCH PEOPLE SAY SOCIAL MEDIA OR INSTAGRAM OR ANYTHING HAVE A NUMBER OF NEGATIVE POINTS, I KIND OF LOVE HAVING ACCESS TO PEOPLE FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD AND IN THIS COUNTRY.
I can see what they are making. I'm developing friendships and conversations and communication with these people just based off of seeing what images and photographs that they are posting and I love developing an understanding from that. It goes from that large scale to the immediate group of people that I collaborate with in this area. It's other artists who I am proposing shows with or trying to just have the best studio practices that we can together and having those conversations and having small critiques or studio visits with each other. I guess community is super important to me. But there's just a number of different pockets of them.
J: My name is Jesse Ly. I identify with he/him pronouns. I have no clue why you asked us to be a part of this project. I dunno. We make things and do things.
K: I'm Kaitlin Staggs. My pronouns are she/her and I'm assuming I'm included cause I live with him.
G: Yeah. I was asking around for couples or roommates that live together. Since we are in quarantine, I was interested in asking them how that has changed their lives. Adriana Noritz actually referred you to me. She thought that you would be perfect candidates for this. Then I realized like, 'Oh well they're also awesome artists in their own right'. Like I just got your zine and I thought it was fantastic and I checked out your work too Kaitlin. So we're going to talk a little bit about that. We can get started if you both just want to tell us what kind of art you work on.
K: Sure. I'm a tattoo artist and I've been doing that for four or five years. I do American traditional style tattoos and from that I also do painting and a little bit of whatever I decide to learn how to do.
J: I guess technically my medium of choice is photography. I am traditionally trained as a photographer. But going through the processes of an undergraduate art school education, it's definitely developed into a number of different facets. That's including intertwining moments in sculpture installation. Book making and interweaving that with video and print making.
I WOULD SAY MY STUDENT PRACTICE INTENSELY REVOLVES AROUND HOW THE PHOTOGRAPHIC IMAGE IS DISSEMINATED AND HOW THE INFORMATION IS COMPREHENDED AND UNDERSTOOD AND HOW THESE OBJECTS OF REPRESENTATION CREATE THIS LIMINAL SPACE BETWEEN ACTUALITY VERSUS REPRESENTATION. AND KIND OF JUST COPING WITH THAT QUESTION AND THAT EXISTENTIAL UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT IS REAL AND WHAT IS NOT AND WHAT IS REPRESENTATIONS.
G: Awesome. So for both of you, what sort of formal education or training ties into the art that you make?
K: For art in general I've always been somebody who draws and paints and does all that. I grew up poor as shit. So that's what I got for gifts. Paper and pencils and colored pencils and stuff. We both went to a career tech school. He went for his junior and senior year of high school. I went for my senior year. I personally went for graphic design. I genuinely have no idea how to do anything with a computer now. But it was very intense on drawing and everything. From that I spent almost a year in college. I went to Antioch college in Yellow Springs for Fine Art and dropped out and found a tattoo apprenticeship. Then was an apprentice for a little over a year. I graduated that and started tattooing professionally.
G: Where do you tattoo professionally?
K: I tattoo at Handcraft. It's downtown Cincinnati.
J: Like she said, I spent my last few years of high school in this vocational school that was entirely fixated on graphic commercial photography. So I really delved into all of the technical aspects of how to make an image and understanding from a to Z what you can do to be technically proficient. I think transferring from that to DAAP's Fine Art BFA program really formulated more of the conceptual apparatuses and thought processes that I deal with. Mixing both of those experiences has helped me develop into questioning a thing and thinking about how I can make a representation or a visual aspect into it, and also figuring how I can be technically proficient within the images that I am making and within the installation that I'm creating. Just having conversations with other artists or people that I collaborate with or having studio visits with curators. Just taking in as much insight as possible feels like necessary to make projects be the best that they can be.
G: Yeah, definitely. School has offered you some knowledge in the technical proficiency. You talked a little bit earlier about how you actually bring your own ideas to photography. Did you get that through education or was that more just outside inspiration for you?
J: I wouldn't say it's definitely a little bit of both. I probably would not be in this mode of thinking without the interactions that I've had. I'm really lucky to have fallen into a really wonderful photographic program with good professors that are willing to help shape their students into thinking in certain modes or helping them find what they are interested in making. I pull from that and then just find motivation and a drive to further work to the best that I can.
G: You said that you focus on American traditional style. Is that mostly what you both wear or do you wear other things too?
K: What I have tattooed on me? Yeah, I have all traditional pretty much. I have one realism tattoo on the side of my knee. That always gets a bunch of attention and it's my least favorite tattoo. I want to throw lines in it all the time. Then I have some more illustrative linework stuff. But I'd say 99% of my tattoos are traditional.
J: You've done I think 13 out of 14 of my tattoos. So yeah, everything that I have tattooed on me is from her and her style.
G: WHAT SPEAKS TO YOU ABOUT THE AMERICAN TRADITIONAL STYLE?
K: A LOT OF HISTORY. IT'S THE FIRST MAJOR STYLE THAT THERE WAS. OTHER THAN THE ORIGINAL MORE TRIBAL STYLES OUT THERE. IT'S LASTED OVER TIME. IT WAS REALLY POPULAR IN THE 1800'S AND IT'S JUST CONTINUED. I THINK THAT'S REALLY COOL. I ALSO STILL USE A COIL MACHINE, WHICH A LOT OF PEOPLE GIVE ME A LOT OF CRAP FOR BECAUSE IT'S HEAVY AND THEY NEED CONSTANT TUNE UPS AND THEY'RE JUST KIND OF A PAIN IN THE ASS. BUT THEY'RE PRETTY MUCH THE SAME AS THEY WERE IN THE LATE 1800'S. THERE'VE BEEN TWEAKS TO MAKE THEM NOT SO BIG AND BULKY AND STUFF, BUT FOR THE MOST PART THEY'RE THE SAME. I THINK THAT'S REALLY COOL. TRADITIONAL DEFINITELY IS FOLK STORIES. A LOT OF THE DESIGNS ARE BASED ON TALL TALES AND STUFF. I JUST THINK IT'S COOL.
I don't do only that. I definitely do take the style and do nontraditional imagery in that style. But I think that's what really drew me toward it. I originally wanted to be a realism tattooer. My mentor was a realism tattooer. A couple months into the apprenticeship, he realized that I started drawing traditional. My portfolio had always been a realism. Then he was like, 'do you want to be a traditional tattooer now?' And I'm like, 'yeah'. I did maybe three realism tattoos to graduate. Everything else I've done is traditional. So he was pretty pissed about that, but that's alright.
G: So you two have become a couple in the era of COVID-19. Are you both on quarantine at home right now?
K: Yeah, we're both not working.
J: Yeah, we're both currently unemployed. Aside from our a studio in the West End. I still have continually been going there cause I need to finish my thesis work. I'm also trying to actively maintain a studio practice. But aside from going there, I don't think we've left our apartment in.... [grimace]
K: We need groceries. We have no bread and no tortillas. So I'm like, 'ah shit, we have to get food'.
J: I feel like we haven't done anything or we've just been here.
K: I've been doing commissions. I've been painting a lot of commissions to have some sort of income.
I'M STILL CURRENTLY TRYING TO PAY BOOTH RENT WHERE I'M AT. I'M AN INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR ESSENTIALLY. I JUST PAY TO WORK WHERE I WORK. THE GUY THAT OWNS THE SHOP ISN'T A RICH DUDE. HE'S HAVING A SECOND KID, SO HE'S LIKE, 'HEY, IF YOU CAN PAY RENT, PLEASE DO. CAUSE I CAN'T COVER THE WHOLE SHOP'. SO I'M STILL PAYING EVERYTHING I CAN TO HELP HIM OUT. I NEED SOME SORT OF INCOME WHILE I DO THAT. SO I'VE JUST BEEN BUSTING OUT PAINTING COMMISSIONS. I THINK I JUST DID MY LIKE 24TH PAINTING OVER THE PAST.
G: Wow. Damn.
K: Yeah, it's nice though. It's keeping me busy. Other than that it's watching Netflix.
G: I guess your schedule, your day to day flow must have been thrown off a fair amount by this. Do you find it hard to make or easier to make these days?
K: Me personally, I don't really draw or paint at the shop I work at. I do everything other than tattoo at home. Honestly I miss tattooing. But it's kinda just workdays from home still. It's not that different other than not being able to go tattoo cool stuff at the end of the day. It's pretty hard for me.
J: I don't know if you are feeling a similar thing. After getting kicked out of the building, not having access to a lot of things has definitely slowed down the process. But I think it's kind of kicked me into gear with what post-grad is going to be like anyways. I'm not going to have access to any of these things. It's advanced this like two, three weeks. So trying to figure out that hustle of how I get all of this stuff done and get access to things. I've been making a lot of frames lately. It's finding access to equipment for woodworking.
K: So far you have.
J: Yeah. So far I've been able to successfully do everything that I've intended to do. But like, oof. It's definitely not luxurious by any means.
K: A lot of talk about buying some woodworking tools for our studio after all of this.
G: Yeah. How have you been making up for a lack of access to equipment? Do you borrow or find your own stuff?
J: I have definitely been borrowing a lot of equipment from friends and utilizing that. A good friend of ours, he has a miter saw in his basement. He unlocked his basement door and let me into his home so that I could use it while he was upstairs.
K: We talked from six plus feet away.
J: Yeah he yelled down his stairwell to converse with me. That was really weird. But yeah, I have that and I've converted a small home office/ studio space. I've turned that and our one bathroom into a dark room. Which is by no means an ideal set up. But it gets the job done.
G: That's good. Do you two ever make art together?
J: We've tried...
K: He takes a lot of photos of me, if that counts.
J: That's true.
K: I think that I'm more drawing, painting, stuff like that. We're always kind of thinking of different ways we could make work together. But the last time I remember really trying to make a piece- it wasn't anything serious, it was just kind of doing something together- I just had some big piece of paper or something and we were painting on it. This was years ago. You lived at that first house. He was a sophomore in college. We were trying to paint together and I was just like, 'no pressure, let's just paint, whatever'. I'm painting something and I look up and he's so frustrated that he can't paint what he wants to paint. He's like 'I'm not doing this anymore' and wouldn't finish it. So I think that our art styles are different enough that we'd have to do a mashup. It wouldn't really be us both doing the same thing.
J: I think we've tried so many times. I definitely would consider me making photographs of you as a collaboration.
K: Well especially when you let me do what I want.
J: Yeah, we've definitely developed a repertoire with each other.
K: Oh yeah. I understand. I know the angles. It's been seven years. I know.
J: Yes and like structurally making things. I feel like we intensely had a lot of conversations about it.
K: We definitely plan to. I think that once you have more time, that can be something we can actually focus on and just play around with. I'm excited for him to be out of school for a while so that we can spend time at the studio and stuff. I've been working on sculptural work. I'm currently building a guillotine out of an old easel that we found that was left at our studio. It's really big and scary looking. I've been saying I'm going to do it for two years and now I'm like, 'Oh, I have no excuse'. So I took it apart and I'm sanding everything and whatnot, and I'm going to make a guillotine I guess.
J: It's ominous and sick.
G: Yeah, that is sick. Do you know where you're going to show it or is it just for you?
K: Well, it's just for me right now. I've been talking to the guys up at Basket Shop. He supposedly has a show kind of lined up. Obviously we don't know what's gonna happen. But he's reached out to me about doing a collaboration where I show my work like in front of his work or something. I dunno. I'm making it for me cause I wanna make it and if it happens to be showed, that's cool. If not, then we'll just have an ominous guillotine in our studio.
G: THAT'S AWESOME. HOW DO YOU FEEL, JESSE, ABOUT THE END OF YOUR
EDUCATION BEING CUT OFF IN THIS WAY?
J: I'M NOT GONNA LIE. IT DEFINITELY SUCKS. AT THE SAME TIME, I AM TRYING TO COPE WITH THIS. IT'S WEIRD TO THINK ABOUT IT JUST CAUSE THE REASONS FOR EVERYTHING THAT THEY'RE DOING MAKES TOTAL SENSE. I WOULD FEEL KIND OF SELFISH THAT PEOPLE COULD DIE OR PEOPLE COULD SEE SOME THINGS THAT I'VE MADE. DEALING WITH THAT, TRYING TO JUST MENTALLY UNDERSTAND THAT IT'S OKAY THAT I'M UPSET, BUT ALSO THE RATIONALE IS TOTALLY UNDERSTANDABLE.
K: It's definitely okay that you're upset. He is supposed to be graduating this spring and my little sister's graduating high school. So both of them are going to miss out on their graduation.
J: I mean I'm truly excited to see how motivated and what possibilities people find after all of this. Who knows when it will be. A number of other people who we are graduating with, I know have poured their heart and soul and blood into making something that's insane or awesome that they care deeply about. I'm interested in how things are going to manifest after all of this. Post-this I'm so excited.
G: Definitely. I'm glad to hear that you're excited about it. That's awesome.
J: Yeah. I'm just trying to be a bit optimistic. Not knowing when it will be though.
G: Yeah, the uncertainty of it is definitely a little bit extra scary additionally to the whole sickness thing. Do either of you feel that your artistic practices are particularly tied to Cincinnati?
K: No. God no. I'm originally from Dayton, Ohio. I lived there up until two years ago. I've been in Cincinnati since then. I worked in a not awesome shop for a little over two years in Dayton. I had a pretty mentally abusive situation with my mentor and owner of the shop. So in that way I think that Cincinnati has made my practice better. Just because I'm now in a space that I don't have to be scared to be at. There's a mutual respect between the shop owner and myself. So in that way, yes, I think Cincinnati has improved my work. But I don't think it's tied to Cincinnati. I don't know. I love Cincinnati.
J: I'm in a similar vein in that my work is definitely affected by the interactions with the people that I have conversations with and studio visits with or whatever. A large majority of the people that I hold their opinion to be the most value when talking about work are people that I've met either through school or are in the immediate region or area. I think I am tied to those people who have connections here. But in a similar boat I am not originally from here, but being here has definitely developed me into the person and artist that I am now. So I hold that sentimental attachment. But by no means do I feel tied. I don't think I'm giving back or anything. Sometimes I feel like I should. But I don't know how that would be.
K: Ever since I started being able to actually tattoo for money I tried to, a couple of times a year at least, do donations. I'll do a day or a flash sheet or whatever. I've done it differently a handful of times. Then I would donate what I made from that around the time when that really big push against planned Parenthood was happening. When all that stuff started happening I did a flash day and I ended up by myself raising four or five hundred dollars for planned Parenthood. I've been doing stuff recently for the food bank downtown. Cause obviously a lot of people are being hit by everything now. I just raffled off a painting and I donated the money to that. I plan on continually doing that through the crisis.
G: That's awesome. That actually ties into my next question, which is a question that I'm asking everyone involved in this project. I want to ask everybody, what do you consider to tie your community together? Apparently it's not geographic location, but is it a medium that people work in? Is it an ideology that people share? What ties your community together?
K: Um, I don't know. I feel like we have a tight group of friends and none of us do the same thing. It's not a group of artists. That's my community. When I think of community here, it's just a tight group of friends. What ties us together is game night. We play cards and board games. In my head that's my community. I don't feel much community work-wise. I love my job and I appreciate the people I work with. But it's not a community where it's like we're all gonna hang out and make work together and stuff. I go there and I work and then I come home. It's almost nice having a community outside of the art world. We can drink a beer and we can play something. That's what I would consider my community.
J: I FEEL LIKE I'M IN A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT LITTLE POCKETS. WE HAVE THIS IMMEDIATE FRIEND GROUP. I FEEL LIKE THEY'RE THE PEOPLE THAT WE TALK TO REGULARLY AND CONSISTENTLY. WITH MAKING THINGS I HAVE A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT PEOPLE THAT I'VE MET THROUGH THE ACT OF TRYING TO SEE WHAT OTHER PEOPLE ARE MAKING. THERE IS A REALLY LOVELY ONLINE COMMUNITY OF CONTEMPORARY PHOTOGRAPHERS. AS MUCH PEOPLE SAY SOCIAL MEDIA OR INSTAGRAM OR ANYTHING HAVE A NUMBER OF NEGATIVE POINTS, I KIND OF LOVE HAVING ACCESS TO PEOPLE FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD AND IN THIS COUNTRY.
I can see what they are making. I'm developing friendships and conversations and communication with these people just based off of seeing what images and photographs that they are posting and I love developing an understanding from that. It goes from that large scale to the immediate group of people that I collaborate with in this area. It's other artists who I am proposing shows with or trying to just have the best studio practices that we can together and having those conversations and having small critiques or studio visits with each other. I guess community is super important to me. But there's just a number of different pockets of them.